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Variable SuperCapacitor batteries

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alphabetikal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 April 2011 at 4:15pm

check it out -

http://hackaday.com/2011/04/15/variable-super-capacitor-battery-provides-power-on-the-go/

Does any one have any knowledge/experience of how these could be useful for 12v or 24v systems - especially with a voltage changer?

Looks interesting, why have we not heard of these before? Or am i missing something!?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor

Disadvantages

  • The amount of energy stored per unit weight is generally lower than that of an electrochemical battery (3–5 W·h/kg for an standard ultracapacitor, although 85 W.h/kg has been achieved in the lab[3] as of 2010[update] compared to 30-40 W·h/kg for a lead acid battery), and about 1/1,000th the volumetric energy density of gasoline.
  • Typical of any capacitor, the voltage varies with the energy stored. Effective storage and recovery of energy requires complex electronic control and switching equipment, with consequent energy loss
  • Has the highest dielectric absorption of any type of capacitor.
  • High self-discharge - the rate is considerably higher than that of an electrochemical battery.
  • Cells hold low voltages - serial connections are needed to obtain higher voltages. Voltage balancing is required if more than three capacitors are connected in series.
  • Linear discharge voltage prevents use of the full energy spectrum.
  • Very low internal resistance allows extremely rapid discharge when shorted, resulting in a shock hazard similar to any other capacitor of similar voltage and capacitance (generally much higher than electrochemical cells).

[edit] Advantages

  • Long life, with little degradation over hundreds of thousands of charge cycles. Due to the capacitor's high number of charge-discharge cycles (millions or more compared to 200 to 1000 for most commercially available rechargeable batteries) it will last for the entire lifetime of most devices, which makes the device environmentally friendly. Rechargeable batteries wear out typically over a few years, and their highly reactive chemical electrolytes present a disposal and safety hazard. Battery lifetime can be optimised by charging only under favorable conditions, at an ideal rate and, for some chemistries, as infrequently as possible. EDLCs can help in conjunction with batteries by acting as a charge conditioner, storing energy from other sources for load balancing purposes and then using any excess energy to charge the batteries at a suitable time.
  • Low cost per cycle
  • Good reversibility
  • Very high rates of charge and discharge.
  • Extremely low internal resistance (ESR) and consequent high cycle efficiency (95% or more) and extremely low heating levels
  • High output power
  • High specific power. According to ITS (Institute of Transportation Studies, Davis, California) test results, the specific power of electric double-layer capacitors can exceed 6 kW/kg at 95% efficiency[10]
  • Improved safety, no corrosive electrolyte and low toxicity of materials.
  • Simple charge methods—no full-charge detection is needed; no danger of overcharging.

A



Edited by alphabetikal - 15 April 2011 at 4:16pm
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davey t View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davey t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2011 at 4:49pm
capacitors and ultracapacitors are normally used in parallel with a battery to provide a low impedance current sink/source for peak and pulsed currents. Energy density is too low for use on their own. They are normally placed near the load and makes it possible to use long battery cables. 

We used to use a bank of these close to the electric motors. It was amazing how much energy they could sink and source. 

Modern lipo and SLA cells can provide more than enough power for the amplifiers and power levels we are using. Especially if you keep your cables short. Hence I wouldn't waste your money on supercaps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2011 at 5:00pm
Note that the energy density (not power density) is very low, and typically around 20Wh/l, where LFP cells have 220Wh/l, and Li-Po 320Wh/l.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphabetikal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 9:54am
yeh ... the old SLAs are still pretty decent huh...

wish for the day when batts can move on... all this talk of fuel cells is making me crazy!

where's Tesla when you need him!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TechnoChef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 1:48pm
Couldn't you somehow use a sprung dancefloor with some kind of piston/generator assembly to harness the power of a mosh pit?!
Or maybe a big inflatable mat and one way valves, obviously a dance floor would contradict the 12V portability!
I think I'm in love with your mum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by TechnoChef TechnoChef wrote:

Couldn't you somehow use a sprung dancefloor with some kind of piston/generator assembly to harness the power of a mosh pit?!

Or maybe a big inflatable mat and one way valves, obviously a dance floor would contradict the 12V portability!


Roskilde festival actually had that as an installment 2 years ago. The electricity generated powered the music, and if enough people were dancing on it, the lightshow would start up as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomschute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 4:30pm
I always wondered why they don't design roads as heat source / power generators. There's enough of them and there not cheap to lay so why not put some hose in em! You could then heat them in the winter...

sorry bit off topic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TechnoChef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 4:38pm
That is bl00dy cool!
Was just thinking out loud in the last post. Can't imagine it would be too practical for the real, portable world though. Shame!
I think I'm in love with your mum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davey t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 6:49pm
I've spent many moment in a sweaty club thinking of ways to put this excess of people energy to use. The best way I thought would be to run water pipes around the ceiling and pumps water round from an underwater storage tank. It would keep the club cool as the water removes the heat from the room and puts it into the tank. 

Then you can use the hot water to heat the room the next day or rest of the week. 

Piezo materials can dancing into electricity but are very inefficient. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by davey t davey t wrote:

I've spent many moment in a sweaty club thinking of ways to put this excess of people energy to use.



You should spend more time checking out (girls' - I assume) asses and getting zullered mate Wink

Anyway - just curious how things are going with that minirig of yours ?
Looks very snazzy on minirig.com .....

Could that thing be easily re-teaked to work as a "top" - with extra (obviously good deal larger) sub in mind ?

Got any idea of final price yet ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TechnoChef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2011 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by davey t davey t wrote:

I've spent many moment in a sweaty club thinking of ways to put this excess of people energy to use. The best way I thought would be to run water pipes around the ceiling and pumps water round from an underwater storage tank. It would keep the club cool as the water removes the heat from the room and puts it into the tank. 

Then you can use the hot water to heat the room the next day or rest of the week.


Someone should build that into a jacket for ravers. Keep you cool overnight when you're dancing away, then when you stumble into the cold at 6am you'll be nice and toasty!
I think I'm in love with your mum.
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