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woody2 View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 04 March 2010
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Points: 1726 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Originally posted by Noyzmunky Noyzmunky wrote:

Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Dont feed the numpties. Common sense obviously left at an early age, along with the abilty to think critically.

Why do surgeons wear masks in surgery if they dont work?


Surgeons, and in fact all people who work in hospitals and places where mask wearing is a part of the safety procedure, work in specially filtered and properly ventilated environments. COSH and other environmental statutes come into force.. Without these precautions people soon get very ill because wearing any kind of filtering mask for long is... well it's bad for you.

I believe Dusseldorf has just had a successful overturn of the mask rule. The courts could not support the government mandate when given real science.

Bacterial lung infections are up 400% in the uk by the way.

The lack of anything but ad hominem from ignorant folk is rather taxing. ttfn
your not denying they work then?


masks worn by the public are not the same thing......

every study so far has found they don't work, or increase infection rates in the general population.

dentists have suffered for years with infections caused by airborne particles even wearing masks. which is why some have moved to air feed masks, the nhs is now trying them.

wear one if you want........
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APW View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 13 November 2012
Location: Kent, UK
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Points: 1174 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 5:21pm

Clarification of the facts:

Düsseldorf has not lifted its requirement for people to wear masks in specific public settings.

The city issued a decree on Wednesday 4 November that required masks to be worn across the entire city area, in addition to guidance on mask-wearing that had been in place since April which called for masks in most indoor public settings.

The new additional rule would have expanded compulsory mask-wearing to pedestrians and any other path users, and the only exception would have been in non-built up areas, such as green spaces.

On 10 November, the Düsseldorf Administrative Court found that the new rule on wearing a mask throughout the city was too general to comply with the legal principle of certainty, which requires laws to be clear enough for people to know how to follow them.

This means that the court found the rule was not detailed enough in specifying where or when masks would need to be worn to ensure that people would be able to understand how to comply with it.

In response, the guidance in Düsseldorf was updated the next day to address the court’s decision. The requirement to wear a mask in the city area now applies specifically to urban areas that are visited by a large number of people at the same time, including:

  • Streets with a significant number of retail shops between 10am and 7pm
  • The squares in front of and behind the main train/underground station in Düsseldorf between 6am and 10pm
Source:
https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-mask-mandate-dusseldorf-germany-5270644-Nov2020/


Edited by APW - 30 December 2020 at 5:26pm
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Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 January 2012
Location: Europe
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Points: 7216 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by APW APW wrote:

Clarification of the facts:

Düsseldorf has not lifted its requirement for people to wear masks in specific public settings.

The city issued a decree on Wednesday 4 November that required masks to be worn across the entire city area, in addition to guidance on mask-wearing that had been in place since April which called for masks in most indoor public settings.

The new additional rule would have expanded compulsory mask-wearing to pedestrians and any other path users, and the only exception would have been in non-built up areas, such as green spaces.

On 10 November, the Düsseldorf Administrative Court found that the new rule on wearing a mask throughout the city was too general to comply with the legal principle of certainty, which requires laws to be clear enough for people to know how to follow them.

This means that the court found the rule was not detailed enough in specifying where or when masks would need to be worn to ensure that people would be able to understand how to comply with it.

In response, the guidance in Düsseldorf was updated the next day to address the court’s decision. The requirement to wear a mask in the city area now applies specifically to urban areas that are visited by a large number of people at the same time, including:

  • Streets with a significant number of retail shops between 10am and 7pm
  • The squares in front of and behind the main train/underground station in Düsseldorf between 6am and 10pm
Source:
https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-mask-mandate-dusseldorf-germany-5270644-Nov2020/



Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap


Thank you for looking that up and posting. It's so easy to post some 1/2 arse BS as fact - or taking a 1/2 truth and blowing it up to support the unsupportable. Total modus operandi for the anti-vax, anti-reality, anti-science movement.  Disapprove

Like Mr. Troll and his nonsense about masks. It´s been established long ago that they do work - but he keeps sprouting his BS - like a broken record - and of course never any links, or sources, or anything. Just a load of hot air. Talk about tiring.  Dead
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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midas View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 27 October 2011
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Points: 2117 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 9:54pm
I struggle to understand how many people believe in conspiracies to a pandemic that is world wide. How it originated I dont know as I am a Civil Engineer and not a medical doctor. But come on, no one person can control the narcissistic leaders in one go. As well as the ones who are a bit more level headed. 
In bass no one can hear you scream!
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snowflake View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 29 December 2004
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Points: 3122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 December 2020 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:



No new side effects have been found according to SAGE/WHO clearly you know better.



I've read New Scientist every week for the last 35 years and they have had at least three articles on COVID every edition - so yes I do consider myself well informed. If you pay attention to SAGE or WHO (I thought you didn't) here are some links

this has got some pictures for you.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/risk-comms-updates/update-36-long-term-symptoms.pdf?sfvrsn=5d3789a6_2

here is a speech from the WHO Director General a couple of months ago:
https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---30-october-2020

How can someone with a computer manage to be so utterly ignorant?
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Mikkel View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 17 May 2013
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Points: 549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 12:02am
Enifique or whatever that idiot was called was banned for spewing dangerous information on this site, and i see the comments from these two no differently.

I know its extreme and im no fan of censourship, but if they carry on i think they should be banned.
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woody2 View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 04 March 2010
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Points: 1726 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:



No new side effects have been found according to SAGE/WHO clearly you know better.



I've read New Scientist every week for the last 35 years and they have had at least three articles on COVID every edition - so yes I do consider myself well informed. If you pay attention to SAGE or WHO (I thought you didn't) here are some links

this has got some pictures for you.


How can someone with a computer manage to be so utterly ignorant?




tps://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-facemasks-idUKKBN27Y1YW

LOL

WHO says it's a "political decision"

SAGE have zero evidence as they told the select committee

the cross contamination is under study at the moment
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4D View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 13 November 2008
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Points: 4257 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:

I struggle to understand how many people believe in conspiracies to a pandemic that is world wide. How it originated I dont know as I am a Civil Engineer and not a medical doctor. But come on, no one person can control the narcissistic leaders in one go. As well as the ones who are a bit more level headed. 

try Epstein's love island as an example of the kind of leverage that can be applied to our beloved leaders in an effort to help them all see the same light. 


Another topic, but a few hours spent listening to the Celotex or Kingspan corporate killers being questioned about their actions leading up to their products being plastered all over hundreds if not thousands of buildings when they knew full well that they were highly inflammable, totally unsuitable and a genuine risk to life is a genuine example of a conspiracy at work.. .
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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monkeypuzzle View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 25 January 2005
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Points: 924 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 3:03pm
Two links have just been added as evidence that masks are of little value. I'd just like to add that I have looked at both links and this is what I take from them.

Firstly, the Danish study, its first paragraph:

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - A Danish study released on Wednesday found face masks provide the wearer with only limited protection against COVID-19 infection, but said this should not be used to argue against their widespread use to prevent people infecting others.

Secondly, this image is taken from the sciencemag.org study showing that mask DO reduce the amount of particles that are exhaled when worn compared to a control of no mask. This is directly from the link posted.



Edited by monkeypuzzle - 31 December 2020 at 3:05pm
blah blah blah blah blah......
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Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 January 2012
Location: Europe
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Points: 7216 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by monkeypuzzle monkeypuzzle wrote:

Two links have just been added as evidence that masks are of little value. I'd just like to add that I have looked at both links and this is what I take from them.

Firstly, the Danish study, its first paragraph:

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - A Danish study released on Wednesday found face masks provide the wearer with only limited protection against COVID-19 infection, but said this should not be used to argue against their widespread use to prevent people infecting others.

Secondly, this image is taken from the sciencemag.org study showing that mask DO reduce the amount of particles that are exhaled when worn compared to a control of no mask. This is directly from the link posted.




So masks are important - especially for stopping the asymptomatics - up to 80% according to some data I've seen - infecting all around them! What the hell more do you need to say? Why keep arguing the point? How stupid do you have to be? A bloody annoying troll!!  Dead
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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monkeypuzzle View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 25 January 2005
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Points: 924 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 7:14pm
I understand your reasoning on the troll moniker but a troll is someone that deliberately and maliciously seeds disinformation. In this case we are all from a wide spectrum of backgrounds and experiences and these lead us to certain outlooks or predilections to a world view point.

No individual can claim they have the full picture and no individual can value their life experience over another. Spending time looking over the information and facts in circulation are however a skill that has been lost for quite a few over these last few years and that's a very sad thing. 

Peoples readiness to skim something that seem to bolster their current world view (in this case neither articles actually did that) and use it as defacto evidence is a sad thing especially on a technical forum where there is a healthy amount of both subjective, objective and factual + scientific debate. It adds nothing to the debate whatever viewpoint this kind of behaviour comes from. 

Take a step back people, let go of the ego and let's work to a common good, I personally agree with the OP. 

Wanted... somewhere to play my set... somewhere to have a dance... I will continue to wear a mask to protect others. I will respect others right to space and that will bring that moment closer.

Stay safe folks and may the new year bring better times.
blah blah blah blah blah......
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bin juice24 View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 February 2020
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Points: 209 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin juice24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2020 at 10:06pm
My business is £200 K down on last year. 

I still don’t know one person with a positive covid test.

Something isn’t right.
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