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void kryo 5.5 / ram s4004 problem

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cravings View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 January 2014 at 6:34pm
had one of these out on new years. have used this amp many many times. have used it bridged into subs the odd time... it's always surprised / impressed me with how well it's done...


but on new years it was running a pair of bi amped martin W3. the easiest job i've ever asked it to do.. and it failed. got a call from the venue saying the tops were off. got there and found the power light on the amp blinking. disconnected speakons, tried again.. same. everything else on the same outlet working fine (matrix xt6004, dbmark crossover and full set of dj kit). had a spare 2 channel amp with me but couldn't get it to run the martins how things were all set but got a pair of mismatched tops on sticks going but was disappointed because i was pleased with the martins...

anysay.. today in the workshop, this amp seems fine. so do the speakers. have gone over all the speakon leads for shorts, nothing. all good. have read the amps manual on protection etc, no description of this. didn't go into temp or protect mode, just shut off with this led blinking.

cleaned it out today. bit dusty alright but both fans spinning and airflow pretty clear.

anyone any thoughts? can't trust it now..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2014 at 7:52pm
Check for pcb flashover around the emitter resistors; the pcb lands are very close here and can flash over under humid conditions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrighty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 1:31am
I don't know this amp and Kev may already be spot on with his suggestion, but here's another...

Low supply voltage and a more sensitive PSU than the other gear running from the same outlet, maybe...? We did a job a few years ago, running off a customer-supplied genny (which was well within spec and a decent unit). Part way through the evening, the 4 Sennheiser radio mic receivers started to randomly go off and on, shortly followed by the Crown XTi powering the tops. We managed to get through the evening with wired mics and an old C-Audio ST600 with a less sensitive, linear PSU. We didn't have a multimeter with us, but low voltage was definitely to blame in this case, as the dimness of the lights in the tent indicated and the genny engineer confirmed the next day!

If you've got access to a variac, it might be worth trying it on that, to see if you can repeat the symptoms with low voltage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 2:34am
Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:

If you've got access to a variac, it might be worth trying it on that, to see if you can repeat the symptoms with low voltage.


good point, i do, i will.

i've done stuff in this venue for the last year and a half with no power problems. it was a small setup really. i'm almost certain i've used that same amp there before without issue.

thanks for suggestions. tomorrow i'll have another look at what i can see of the amp channels. it's a small package with a lot in it.

here is ram's own pic of the internals.



as said, i'll have a look tomorrow for any signs of pcb damage, and will see how it behaves on the variac. thanks again.

Edited by cravings - 08 January 2014 at 2:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 10:02am
Do you mean a 5.4 amp? Or is there another model I forget? If so I have managed to kill one before by running just a 8ohm bass load on one channel (not even 2 bridged!) and a couple of tops on another 2. I'm not convinced the power in the venue was the best (lights used to flash a bit) but can't say for sure if that had anything to do with it.

Chris (Ceharden) repaired that for me at the time so he has a fair bit of experience with the 5.4 model.


Edited by odc04r - 08 January 2014 at 10:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 11:44am
well it does say 5.4 on the front of the amp.. but if you look through all of voids manuals etc, they reckon they made a 4.5 and a 5.5..

but yeah the bigger one.

amp is seemingly running fine now, just gave up while on the job..

in the workshop soon so will look at it a bit more. curious to hear chris' experience with them so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 12:35pm
My one went bang nicely, from memory Chris thought the PSU had gone faulty on one rail. Didn't damage any drivers though. Took a while to die too, sound went a bit wonky for 30 seconds and then there was silence and a bad burning smell... At which point it was quickly turned off!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2014 at 9:55pm
I'm afraid my memory of it is a bit hazy, was a fair while ago.  I know I definitely had to repair the surface mount plug-in driver board for the switchmode power supply and I think the output stage on one channel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2014 at 12:42pm
The muck accumulates in between the fans and the heatsinks. You can lift the fans out and then examine the board there.

A flashing external power light indicates a tripping power supply which means something is loading it down., the internal power light stays lit.
Under/over voltage will normally just shut it down completely.

Another intermittent fault can occur where the secondary bus caps wear out, check if any are bulging, it may work at room temperature but trip if its in a cold venue. The secondary caps sit behind the speakons and are marked 'SamYoung'.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2014 at 2:36pm
put it on my variac this morning. i have my variac set up permanently in series with a light bulb.. do intend on making possible to bypass the lamp but haven't done it yet.

but yeah, on the variac, the lamp glows very brightly. brighter than i've seen it before i think.

and also, it doesn't power up properly while on this setup. the power light goes on and off and the fans start up and shut down.. it seems like a much slower flashinf cycle than i saw in the venue though. maybe about 2 seconds between on and next on, in the venue it was much more like 4 times that. flashing / starting up sequence didn't change between about 210v and 240v.

have it open now, and the fan board out. i cleaned all the gunk out the other day.. there was a good bit but not too much.

can't see anything visibly out of order.. those caps look fine, nothing looks visibly scorched or anything.

i'll continue checking what i can but this one may be beyond me (most are beyond me heh.)

cheers for tips.

can i disconnect the connectors that connect to the 2 pairs of channels does anyone know? white molex type ones where kevin described the flashover possible area?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2014 at 8:25pm
I thought you said it works fine away from the venue?


Edited by kedwardsleisure - 10 January 2014 at 8:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2014 at 8:37pm
well it powers up, here in the garage, and played music ok.. only ran it quietly.

but as i said above when i powered up via a series light bulb, the bulb ewent very bright and the amp didn't start up properly.

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