V-plating 1850s or 186s for free dBs

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   Don't worry, we're all mostly harmless.

Anyway, what do you think about V-coupling with horns that have mouths the size of their fronts? Johan in the other V-coupler thread raised a few glaringly obvious points about that one, just wondering whether you'd tried it.

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Deadbeat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Singularity Status: Offline Points: 3167	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deadbeat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 August 2008 at 8:14pm
	Don't worry, we're all mostly harmless. Anyway, what do you think about V-coupling with horns that have mouths the size of their fronts? Johan in the other V-coupler thread raised a few glaringly obvious points about that one, just wondering whether you'd tried it.
	Away on extended leave.

bgavin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 30 July 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote bgavin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 August 2008 at 9:52pm
	V-Coupling is not my intellectual property, so I'm not worried at all. Enforcement of copyright in the USA falls under the criminal statutes, not civil, so the legal costs associated with enforcement are paid by the District Attorney, not the copyright owner. He files the complaint, the DA handles it from there. I have not measured any end-mouth designs. As to any glaringly obvious points, the measurements are the best indicator. They speak for themselves. BTW, the ones I measured above, used only a folding table as the V-coupler. No fancy sealing was involved. I laid the table flat across the horn mouths and got the boost that is evident in the charts.

Deadbeat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Singularity Status: Offline Points: 3167	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deadbeat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 August 2008 at 10:12pm
	Why so serious? (don't take this one wrongly either) When I mentioned glaringly obvious points, I was thinking of the ones that Johan immediately realised (that I didn't AFTER looking at the V-coupler for a while), that when you have a right angled triangle, the two perpendicular sides (which would equal the mouth area on a horn folded in that scheme), are bigger than the largest side (which holds true with all triangles), which would create negative expansion compared with if two of such horns were simply put mouth to mouth. I'm not trying to say anything, this method seems to be a winner, but I wonder about it's suitability for such horns. You are right, the measurements do speak for themselves, that V-coupling works with BFM's bass horn designs with smaller mouths, it is quite a clever way of making the cabinet part of the barndoor extension.
	Away on extended leave.

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2492	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 August 2008 at 10:51pm
	I am intrigued as to how the copyrighting to V-coupling can exist when people have been using mouth extenders in cinemas for years. Surely someone copyrighted that at some point.... or is that the copyright you are speaking about? Call it what you will, V-coupler, Mouth extender etc. they all do the same job. I doubt anyone with a commercial business would consider encouraging its use though, it looks too DIY for that. So I expect its a safe bet that its only going to exist on DIY rigs. Stu
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

bgavin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 30 July 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote bgavin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 3:33pm
	Right or wrong, it all comes down to receipt of a Cease and Desist letter. If the alleged offender gets one, and continues to sell copyrighted material, he gets slapped with criminal charges. Then he gets to hire a lawyer and defend himself. He will either win or lose in court, but the lawyer always wins. If you have any doubt of this, infringe on a Bose patent and see how quickly it happens. The nay-sayers and armchair quarterbacks will always find fault with any product or idea. My Dad used to tell me that farming was easy work, when you plow with a pencil. However, for those who actually build and test the V-coupler, the measurements do speak for themselves. I see a fair number of large shows where the subs are hidden behind acoustically transparent cloth. DIY is in the eye of the beholder. If V-coupling was a Tom Danley patent, you would find it in some very large venues. I have a design for large, end-mouth subs, but they are designed for under-stage use. I have no clue if V-coupling would aid them or not, but they won't be used that way. The only small end-mouth sub I've built to date is the Autotuba. I only have one, so V-coupling isn't available. Edited by bgavin - 26 August 2008 at 3:34pm

Caeraphym Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 02 May 2008 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 38	Post Options Post Reply Quote Caeraphym Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 4:07pm
	I'm going to v-couple everything with cease and desist letters

Mark James Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 15 January 2006 Location: rig side Status: Offline Points: 5306	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mark James Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 4:28pm
	so you are saying it is a criminal offence to add an extension to a horn cab??? ok then vast majority of people have tried this at some point lol.
	insert silly sentence here

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2492	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 4:57pm
	This is interesting - is there a registered patent number for this, I am intrigued to see it and what has been copyrighted! Stu
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

Paulo Duto Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 06 January 2005 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote Paulo Duto Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 8:28pm
	Hi! I known why they use the V-coupler; I made two Tuba 36; Also made some 1850 and Hogs. No comparison! See real response charts at Pi Forums. Also local stores are infringing copyright everyday. They are selling the ply sheets... Regards, Edited by Paulo Duto - 26 August 2008 at 8:33pm
	Paulo Duto

Deadbeat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Singularity Status: Offline Points: 3167	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deadbeat Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 8:33pm
	??? I'm not sure what you mean by 'no comparison', which setup was better? Can you kindly link us?
	Away on extended leave.

Paulo Duto Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 06 January 2005 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote Paulo Duto Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 9:11pm
	Hi Deadbeat! I respect Mr.BF work. I own the majority of his plans. Made snails, T36, TT, Davids, DR12, DR10 I like the TT which works in the corner. The Davids were my mains in the HT for a year till I made two Line arrays a la Olson which are far better. I tried the two Tubas36 horizontal baffle 28"wide in the corner in HT to compare it to a 25 Hz horn. I compared it to the 1850, to the Hogs, side by side (see Hogs at left, T36 middle, and 1850 right). Played all kind of music through them. Tuba36 lacks the low end. Hogs first, 1850s next. T36 will not be used; will try so sell them. At BF forum you can see also a topic about Mr.Jbell who made four cabs... At Pi forum you can see actual response curves at the shootout which are self explanatory. Regards, Edited by Paulo Duto - 26 August 2008 at 9:52pm
	Paulo Duto

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2492	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 August 2008 at 10:48pm
	Yeah we know about the Tuba 36 experiment which ended up in people discovering the groundbreaking fact that the measurements in the plans for the T36 were made indoors by someone other than Bill himself. I was surprised myself though that with the large cabs Jbell made he didnt have enough mouth area to realise bass down to 40Hz - that was the most interesting thing for me, that while the horn length is long enough to easily do that, the sensitivity was still very low at those frequencies. Paulo, can you explain in what ways the hogs and 1850s were better, maybe not just in output but in other factors? Stu
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches