Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Newbie Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What plan for single pd186
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

What plan for single pd186

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
Xoc1 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 15 October 2012
Location: Devon UK
Status: Offline
Points: 292
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xoc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:14pm
Maybe as a test try using the mixer on the DSP out and then into the Peavey to see if you can get enough drive signal? 
Looked for info on the MiniDSP output level but not found anything other than its supposedly balanced TRS jack out.
Back to Top
Jarba View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 November 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jarba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:16pm
I don’t think that would help, seeing as the signal is already reaches clipping from the mixer if I turn it up too loud. Or did I misunderstand your idea? 
Back to Top
smitske96 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 16 February 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:43pm
Any phone microphone is not suitable to measure any SPL.
Second, the room is always a big factor. To gain the most from your sub, put it in a corner. Reading your other posts, I doubt a different design will fix your problem.
Back to Top
Jarba View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 November 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jarba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:52pm
Yeah the phone was just to get an approximation. We had it in a corner in the past, but it still gets cancelled a lot in the middle where the people are. 
Back to Top
Jarba View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 November 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jarba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2022 at 11:37pm
We are maybe getting a stipend we could use to get one more driver. Would a horn solution be optimal for 2 drivers in such a small place? 
Back to Top
smitske96 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 16 February 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 7:22am
You will get that same cancellation with any other cabinet. It is just not possible to have perfect coverage in such a room. 
Back to Top
toastyghost View Drop Down
The 10,000 Points Club
The 10,000 Points Club
Avatar

Joined: 09 January 2007
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 10669
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 11:53am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Any phone microphone is not suitable to measure any SPL.
Second, the room is always a big factor. To gain the most from your sub, put it in a corner. Reading your other posts, I doubt a different design will fix your problem.


Not true. Up to around 100 dBZ, iPhone MEMS microphones since the iPhone 4 are within 2dB of professional meters, if the app is using compensation data. StudioSixDigital AudioTools, SPLnFFT and the free NIOSH app were the best, when I did a round-robin study on this to help venue owners do cost-effective monitoring of during COVID.

They do saturate with high amounts of bass, however, due to the physical sizing of the cavity.

Android phones are a wash. A cheap Samsung outperformed the flagship by some margin in a study from 2016.

Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

You will get that same cancellation with any other cabinet. It is just not possible to have perfect coverage in such a room. 


Multiple small subs distributed around the space on their own DSP channels, and a tool like MultiSubOptimizer (MSO) makes a huge difference. Free and easy to use with inexpensive kit.

Edited by toastyghost - 05 May 2022 at 11:55am
Back to Top
Jarba View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 November 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jarba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 11:56am
Yeah I used the NIOSH app, did you do the study I found it from? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32108336/

So building another 18 could solve our problem? I’ll play around with placement and see if theres a decent place to put it. I heard about putting the sub in the listening position, and then put it at the spot it sounds best. Does this work? If so I’ll go around with the db meter and put it where it’s loudest


Edited by Jarba - 05 May 2022 at 11:59am
Back to Top
smitske96 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 16 February 2016
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 867
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 6:43pm
@toasty

He will reach that 100dBZ with ease, so I should have probably made my statement a bit more clear.


Second, talking just one cabinet, the problem will stay. Multiple smaller subs with correct processing is a different story as you described.
Back to Top
toastyghost View Drop Down
The 10,000 Points Club
The 10,000 Points Club
Avatar

Joined: 09 January 2007
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 10669
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Jarba Jarba wrote:

Yeah I used the NIOSH app, did you do the study I found it from? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32108336/

So building another 18 could solve our problem? I’ll play around with placement and see if theres a decent place to put it. I heard about putting the sub in the listening position, and then put it at the spot it sounds best. Does this work? If so I’ll go around with the db meter and put it where it’s loudest



No, my work was for a degree module so is unpublished - although the results were used as part of some larger work at the time.

If you're using the NIOSH app, make sure you change the weighting in the app setting from the default of dBA to either dBC or dBZ. Not doing that will mean your readings are filtering out the majority of bass content, which would explain the discrepancy against the levels you expect.

dBZ is unweighted, although dBC is closer to what you'll perceive in a loud gig environment.

From memory, the NIOSH app will display "CLIP" on the screen if the mic is saturated.

As for the method of putting the sub in the listening position, yes this works perfectly well via the principle of reciprocity. It's less effective with a larger listening area such as a venue than it is when you can plonk the speaker on your chair or sofa, though.

If you do want to give it a go, it would be best to do this with a continuous pink noise stimulus into the sub. Your auditory memory is very short, and you'll struggle to hear the dips in response as you move around the room with music playing.

It would also be best to use some app or method to save the frequency responses at the various positions.

Mark those - either put something bright on the floor, or make a floor plan doodle - and repeat the test at the same locations with the sub placed in three or more spots across the listening area. You want >9 measurement positions per source position to characterise the response of a space.

The SPLnFFT app is only a few quid, and you're only concerned about the relative changes in response from location to location so using your phone in 'unweighted' is fine.
Back to Top
Jarba View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 November 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jarba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2022 at 9:57pm
Okay, so I should put the sub in 3 different locations, then measure out 9 different places in the listening area for each of the locations? So 27 measurements in total? And what would I do with the result? How would I go from there? Sounds really interesting and I’m thinking of giving it a go
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.05
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.