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What size Amp?
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Points: 7006 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 10:57am
"They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm,"

Ok - then definitely 4 ohm. Then put them in series. 2 per side on the QSC.

Basic maths:-

 - in series, 4 + 4 = 8, so each channel "sees" 8 ohm.

- in parallel, 4 + 4 = 2. Not too good for the amp...






Edited by Earplug - 09 December 2022 at 10:58am
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Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

"They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm,"

Ok - then definitely 4 ohm. Then put them in series. 2 per side on the QSC.

Basic maths:-

 - in series, 4 + 4 = 8, so each channel "sees" 8 ohm.

- in parallel, 4 + 4 = 2. Not too good for the amp...


Thanks!

So when run in series at 8ohm per channel would I refer to the amps specifications/capabilities in ‘bridge mono mode’ or by saying each channel sees 8ohms do I refer to the amps capabilities in ‘stereo mode both channels driven’ so would I be looking at a amp with 1000w per channel in 8ohms in Stereo? I know this is basics but I’m in pre school here dispute being middle aged ha!

Konanski also mentions:
“Neither, get a small class AB amp in the 150-200w/ch range.” I’ve had a look at these and they are the small box amp things right? Could I not get a smaller rack amp with speakon and use a limiter on the crossover to protect them?


Edited by SnailSpace - 09 December 2022 at 11:30am
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Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

"They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm,"

Ok - then definitely 4 ohm. Then put them in series. 2 per side on the QSC.

Basic maths:-

 - in series, 4 + 4 = 8, so each channel "sees" 8 ohm.

- in parallel, 4 + 4 = 2. Not too good for the amp...


Thanks!

So when run in series at 8ohm per channel would I refer to the amps specifications/capabilities in ‘bridge mono mode’ or by saying each channel sees 8ohms do I refer to the amps capabilities in ‘stereo mode both channels driven’ so would I be looking at a amp with 1000w per channel in 8ohms in Stereo? I know this is basics but I’m in pre school here dispute being middle aged ha!


Yes -- ‘stereo mode both channels driven’.

Bridge mode is something else. As already mentioned - the QSC amp you already have should be fine. The Peavey speakers are very sensitive and really don't need a lot of power to get them moving. In fact over driving them could be worse, ie exceeding the Xmax value and destroy them. Be careful there. Obsession with "Watts" is the downfall of many. Look up "Power Compression"...   Dead


Konanski also mentions:
“Neither, get a small class AB amp in the 150-200w/ch range.” I’ve had a look at these and they are the small box amp things right? Could I not get a smaller rack amp with speakon and use a limiter on the crossover to protect them?

I'm not sure what you mean by "small box amp things", but yes, a small rack amp with around 200W/channel to 8 ohms is fine. Even an iNuke!!   LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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“ the QSC amp you already have should be fine“

So are you suggesting I use the QSC GX3 I have for the PV’s x4 and find a smaller or similar size amp for the Jamo x4? And a small amp for Tweeters?
Would it not make more sense financially to get a large amp for PV’s and so when I do get subs I could use it rather than have to sell off amps to fund future upgrade?

PS I’m not looking to compete with larger Sound Systems out there and I’m not especially into rattling glasses off shelves. Until I started to swap out I had x2 150w 15” McKenzie, x2 150w HH Acoustic 15” & the x4 Jamos and another speaker top box - all going stereo through a speaker splitter which has a max of 150w per channel so that acted as protection for speakers and amp I presume. But it sounded clear, loud and bassy enough for a small space, infact I’ve used the Jamos in a larger venue and they more than filled it with a nice sound. Infact I met the fella who is the speaker designer for Q acoustics when I was a photographers assistant and he actually designed them and really rated them. Now I know they are 90s PA/DJ speakers but they will give me a nice sound for what I need. The whole reason I want to get off the ground on a budget is because there is a distinct lack of sound systems in my area and I want to learn and pass on what I learn, so somethings better than nothing in my opinion. I know that might upset some of the more purists who spend £5k upwards but personally I’m more of a DIY approach. I’d be more than happy taking what I have now to a venue but when I was given the PVs I thought they seemed like a decent addition in taking the next step!




Edited by SnailSpace - 09 December 2022 at 3:24pm
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No.

Please refer to my first post in the thread:-


"You need a 3-way crossover or DSP to split the system into bass, mid & top.

The PLX3602 is fine to power the Black Widows. 2 per channel in parallel. The GX3 for the mid (Jamos). Again, 2 per channel in parallel.

For the tops, you need to find another amp. Something around 200W per channel will be fine. Use the best quality drivers you have. Maybe the Altai? And throw away the piezos!!  LOL"


And my mistake -- I thought that you already had the PLX, but the plan should revolve around the above. And the Peavey's in series, not parallel. Simple.  Smile
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Thanks! Appreciate both of your patience 👍

I tend to agree about the Behringer it’s twice the price of a DBX 234 but suppose its a case of buy once instead of twice 


Edited by SnailSpace - 09 December 2022 at 5:01pm
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Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

 I tend to agree about the Behringer it’s twice the price of a DBX 234 but suppose its a case of buy once instead of twice 

The DBX234 is a very basic crossover only, you would need it plus a whole rack of gear to match what the DCX can do. 
The DCX is a fully customizable crossover meaning you can independantly set the type and slope of every crossover filter on each ouput. But that is just the beginning it also has..
- Parametric EQ on every input and output
- Time delay and phase alignment on every output.
- Adjustable limiters on every output.
- Dynamic EQ on every input and output
- Automatic delay finder.
- 3rd input can be configured as a stereo AES digital interface. 
- very flexable routing, for ex you can do summed mono lows with stereo mids and highs, or 2-way stereo with a pair of delayed fullrange outputs, or stereo 3-way, or mono 6-way. Pretty much any config you need is available.
- Wired remote control PC application. It's right out of the 90's and ideally requires a computer with a serial port.. but it works and is easy to navigate. 




Edited by Conanski - 09 December 2022 at 10:31pm
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Thanks, Looks like I’ve got a lot of learning to do about crossovers! The only thing that puts me off it is that me mention of Serial Ports & PC’s! I don’t have a PC or a serial port! Could possibly use my wife’s work laptop but the connector is £100 alone on Thomann! Wow! Why is connectivity so outdated?
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The DCX can be fully configured from the front panel using the built-in display and controls, you don't need a computer to set it up it's just nicer to not have to squint at a small screen. People have also successfully used USB to serial converters to do this with newer computers. 
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Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

"They say 4ohm on them but did Konanski not mean that when you link 4x4ohm speakers in parallel the becomes 2ohm,"
No you can't link four 40hm speakers together in parallel... the amp would immediately shut down in protect mode or blow up. 

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

So when run in series at 8ohm per channel would I refer to the amps specifications/capabilities in ‘bridge mono mode’ or by saying each channel sees 8ohms do I refer to the amps capabilities in ‘stereo mode both channels driven’ 
That would be stereo mode, forget about bridge mode you can't use it with the speakers you have. 

Originally posted by SnailSpace SnailSpace wrote:

Konanski also mentions:
“Neither, get a small class AB amp in the 150-200w/ch range.” I’ve had a look at these and they are the small box amp things right? Could I not get a smaller rack amp with speakon and use a limiter on the crossover to protect them? 
 
Yes and a good example would be the ART SLA1 or SLA2.


Edited by Conanski - 10 December 2022 at 2:57pm
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Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

The DCX can be fully configured from the front panel using the built-in display and controls, you don't need a computer to set it up it's just nicer to not have to squint at a small screen. People have also successfully used USB to serial converters to do this with newer computers. 

Great!
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Just put it into the calculator and you’re right I looked in the wrong place at 2 speakers instead of 4, 4 said it would be a 1ohm output.

What speakers would you use in bridge mode?

So what type of Series configuration would I be looking at setting up?

Had a look at ART SLA1 & SLA2 thanks (and again was searching something else) out of the need to learn again and the fact they are around £300 - why would I choose this type of amp over something a touch bigger but cheaper if so what would the outcome be? Is it so I’m not over working the amp or the tweeters? 

Cheers
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