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What to do with a load of 18TLW3000

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itskabini View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 June 2021 at 2:46pm
So through some strange circumstance I've bought a soundsystem comprising of 8 sealed subwoofers loaded with 18tlw3000 drivers, 4 more spare 18tlw3000 and 4 Alcons VR12 main speakers. The amps are an Alcons sentinel 10 and a RAM w12044 with a Xilica xd8080 for DSP.

After doing some investigating in WinISD it seems like the sealed subwoofers aren't likely to go as low as I'd like (the dream is 30Hz), as the drivers don't have an extremely big XMax. What would be the best solution to get a nice full range system? 

I did have an idea of getting 4 vented boxes with a volume of around 250L and tuned to 30Hz made, which I could put the spare drivers in and use as subwoofers, and then use the sealed boxes for kick duty (80-160ish). However I can't seem to find any plans for subwoofers tuned that low, the majority seem to be around 180L and tuned to 36Hz which doesn't work amazingly with these drivers.

If anyone has some better suggestions I'd be happy to hear them, and also if anyone can spot any glaring potential issues with the setup I'm very keen to learn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 3:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itskabini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 3:43pm
Thanks for the replies. I was thinking that getting single 18s would make transport much easier than using double 18s, 100KG seems like a lot of weight. 

Also would 8 of the sealed subs be the right number for 4 vented sub drivers? Or would I be better with 8 vented drivers and 4 sealed? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 3:55pm
Done properly twin 18’s are easier to move and use. Think wheels on boxes and a loading ramp for your van. 100Kg is easy for one person to wheel up the ramp and flip up. Certainly easier than double stacking single 18’s at around 60Kg each to take up the same floorspace in the van

4 subs against 8 kicks is also the wrong way around, human hearing is significantly less sensitive at very low frequencies so you need more power. Lower frequencies require more power and the drivers have an increasingly poor impedance match to the air down low, so efficiency falls and falls.

Put all 12 drivers into 6 twin boxes, the 18 sound design is a reasonable place to start and run 28-100Hz.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itskabini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 4:03pm
I suppose as long as I never have to go up any stairs you're probably right.

And I guess that makes sense, the sealed boxes were basically a free bonus when I bought the rest of the stuff, so no point keeping them around if they aren't needed. Although I'm not sure that the tops will keep up with 6 double 18s, they're only little 12 inch boxes.

Seems like the best way to go would be to get 4 of the double 18s made, and then see if the system sounds any better with 4 of the sealed boxes on kicks. If not can easily get another 2 made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 5:05pm
That sounds sensible.

And regarding stairs, in my mind that = local crew.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 5:09pm
@itskabini

I would not use de TLW3000 on kick. I would in that case also go for 3 dual 18 per side (or singles if its a must for you). Upgrading the whole top section would be a better idea imho. Depending on the music, the PM90/60 should be possible candidate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

@itskabini

I would not use de TLW3000 on kick. I would in that case also go for 3 dual 18 per side (or singles if its a must for you). Upgrading the whole top section would be a better idea imho. Depending on the music, the PM90/60 should be possible candidate.


agree, the drivers won't play any higher in a sealed box than a vented one. They might have slightly better transient response but if they are capable of covering the kick range the main thing you will accomplish with only four drivers covering the kick frequencies rather than twelve is that you will have massively reduced the maximum output capability at kick frequencies. +1 make six doubles boxes and see how high you are comfortable crossing them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote itskabini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 5:46pm
I'm really happy with the Alcons tops so don't really want to change them, they're some of the best speakers I've ever heard, and I'm not planning to do huge events with this system.

That does seem sensible actually with regard to just going straight from the double 18s to the tops. Do you think 6 would really be necessary though? Or are they going to just start blowing past the tops. 

On the other hand, for certain kinds of music that might not be such a bad thing, I prefer a system to have quite a lot more sub-bass than is considered "flat" and I know outdoors is much more challenging to get good bass weight than indoors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 5:56pm
You can’t have too much rig, provided that you can move and power it, and you can always turn it down…

Personally i have always found it easier to achieve great bottom end outside, its certainly much more predictable, but you do need a certain size rig to be effective outside, small rigs inside benefiting from 1/4 and 1/8th space loading if needed/possible 
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2021 at 10:00pm
+1 turn them all into identical subs, if you need a kick cab you could always run a differing signal to two of the subs and colocate with the mains. 

Also the spec is "Linear Mathematical Xmax ± 12 mm" the limits of linear excursion are quite likely to be a bit beyond this due to fringe field.  B&C give an xvar spec which is the 70% BL point or the suspension limit value (can't recall what this is called) and this is often greater than xmax E.G: https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/lf-driver/18-0/8/18tbx100


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