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what's the correct delay settings for es18's/hogs

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SouthwestCNC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2017 at 10:56pm
Hog horn length is 257cm es18’s 77cm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2017 at 11:09pm
So the correct delay setting for the es18’s is 2.58m-0.77m=1.8m or @340m/s that is 5.29 ms of delay.

And 7.58ms of delay on tops providing they are reflex.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 7:43am
If only it were that simple.
Time alignment is one thing, phase alignment is something different entirely. Time delay assumes a perfect impulse exits the speaker and enters the hornpath at exactly t=0. In reality, you have inherent time delays in the motion of a speaker, the interaction with the cabinet, and any and all processing in the crossover. These all need to be accounted for.

So unfortunately, the only correct answer is that using hornpath lengths will get you ''in the right ballpark'' and thats about it. After, you need a measurement microphone and a 2 channel analyzer like HolmImpulse, Arta, Room Eq Wizard or Smaart combined with a two channel sound card. (FYI, HolmImpulse can do most of the functions needed using only a single channel).
Best regards,
Teun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

If only it were that simple.
Time alignment is one thing, phase alignment is something different entirely. Time delay assumes a perfect impulse exits the speaker and enters the hornpath at exactly t=0. In reality, you have inherent time delays in the motion of a speaker, the interaction with the cabinet, and any and all processing in the crossover. These all need to be accounted for.

So unfortunately, the only correct answer is that using hornpath lengths will get you ''in the right ballpark'' and thats about it. After, you need a measurement microphone and a 2 channel analyzer like HolmImpulse, Arta, Room Eq Wizard or Smaart combined with a two channel sound card. (FYI, HolmImpulse can do most of the functions needed using only a single channel).


Makes sense and I didn't expect it to be quite a simple as that to be perfect. The right ball park tho is better than, No delay. Quite a few hog/es18 setups ive heard, the owners may have not quite grasped the concept and are not using any so right ball park is a step in the right direction at least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:45am
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:



Makes sense and I didn't expect it to be quite a simple as that to be perfect. The right ball park tho is better than, No delay. Quite a few hog/es18 setups ive heard, the owners may have not quite grasped the concept and are not using any so right ball park is a step in the right direction at least.


Clap

Many people are attempting to use hornloaded kicks above Scoops without LMS, and sub disappears when they bring kicks in!!!



Edited by levyte357- - 23 October 2017 at 10:46am
Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 10:55am
IMO.

Using path length, is probably not going to get you into the ball park.

Ultimately you don't need fancy equipment to phase align 2 speakers.

1: Mic
2: 2 channel sound card.
3: Demo of smaart.

Spend a couple of evening watching YouTube vids on the subject.

Read on the subject.

Then give it a go.
Don't expect to get it first time.

But its actually pretty easy. Probably the easiest of all the dual channel measurements.

And I'm sure once you are getting measurements, those in the know will be able to help you fine tune your settings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:16am
So if horn path length doesn't surfice, Surely these settings will work across all es18/hog combinations providing they are running the same drivers. With 100's of systems running these, are the measured delays top secret?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:47am
Calculating delays, using horn path lengths may not be the most accurate, but it does make a difference.


Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 11:47am
Same drivers, same x over points, filter types, slopes and EQ. And to be really sure, same dsp on the same firmware, in to the same amps.

Then yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Speaker Sol Speaker Sol wrote:

Same drivers, same x over points, filter types, slopes and EQ. And to be really sure, same dsp on the same firmware, in to the same amps.

Then yes.


Good Point!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aman Gebru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:43pm
Unbelievable thread.

Are they really people out there who have no idea how to setup their systems. Many have been doing it the correct way 30 years ago when MLSSA first came out in 1987, so there really is no excuse.

Using physical distance to apply delays is about as useful as leaving your car in first gear and calming your getting the maximum performance from it. Sort this out guys. It only takes a few youtube videos and a demo version of Smaart or the free version of HOLMimpulse and a 30 quid soundcard to do it right.

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