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who makes amps for RCF boxes - is it Powersoft ?
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jammin75 View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 July 2012
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Points: 2363 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 1:01pm
i have a db es 1002 which i use for small tite space gigs can the amp module be repaired ?
feel the vibes !!!   "Who Feels it Knows it"            Strong like Lion              
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cravings View Drop Down
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Points: 7423 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:03pm
I've stuck cheap p-audio 12s into art 312s and they've fitted ok. Just saying.
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Points: 3093 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by APW APW wrote:

Originally posted by kedwardsleisure kedwardsleisure wrote:

The old ART300/500 amps were analogue and thru-hole construction, generally reliable except for the usual problem with most active cabs involving stuff vibrating off the board..
......
......

An anecdote regarding the old RCF/Mackie Art 300/500 amplifiers, I used to do the electronics repairs for a couple of music shops, one shop had a service contract at a hotel that had 20 of the Art 300A speakers permanently installed (at height) in a largish ball room, these were powered 24/7 and the system worked well for several years, then one weekend 5 died, then a few days later another 3 failed.

The fault was simple in that the amplifier has two 100ohm 1.6watt resistors that drop the +/- 40v rails down to feed the +/-15v rail regulators, one of these resistors would fail and so one of the 15v rails would disappear. This caused both the LF and HF amplifiers to swing hard one way, blowing the output transistors and both the drivers.

I advised the shop to get the remaining 12 cabinets to me ASAP so I could change the 100r resistors so the remaining cabinets wouldn’t suffer the same fate. The hotel refused to let the shop remove the remaining cabinets as they were "setting up for a conference and needed them”!!

On the day of the conference the shop "got the call" as the rest of the PA had stopped working and could they do something to help!!

This all happened at the time when RCF and Mackie were going through their “divorce” and due to the way they had set up the service arrangements the 12” woofer (or re-cone kit) was unobtainable, and as it’s not a standard chassis size nothing else fits the plastic cab. It was decided to wright-off all 20 failed cabinets.

…. All because a slightly undersized pair of resistors (and a client that didn't take advice)!!



although these resistors were undersized and therefore failed, it is a testament to their consistency and qc that they all failed within weeks of each other Clap
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APW View Drop Down
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Points: 1161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

.......
although these resistors were undersized and therefore failed, it is a testament to their consistency and qc that they all failed within weeks of each other Clap

Yep, amazing consistency and under normal use they would have probably never fail but running 24/7 for several years sent them over the edge.

With regarding the replacement driver, It was a long time ago, the shop has been closed for over 10 years, the woofer had a slightly larger than normal (for the time) 12" chassis, and the only drivers what would fit were other RCF drivers that due to the RCF/Mackie fallout were not available, We considered getting adapters machined up but the client didn't like the price.
 
Ironically about a month after they were replaced, RCF sorted out its service network and the re-cone kits became available again.



Edited by APW - 14 April 2022 at 5:03pm
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kedwardsleisure View Drop Down
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Points: 4889 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 5:10pm
I've got a plate amp from a JBL PRX just come in last night, together with another from a QSC k-series. I'll let you know which one wins on repairability!



Kevin

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Earplug View Drop Down
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Points: 7098 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

are you guys saying that surface mount devices are not repairable ?

wouldn't that apply to powersoft and other high-density amps as well then ?

or basically all modern class D amps ?




Anything is repairable if money is no object, but finding someone willing to put the time into repairing, and obtaining certain hybrid parts at an economic rate versus replacement of a module is the question.



Definitely this. Diagnostics on a high density board is a lot more difficult & time consuming. And try source some of the custom transformers that a lot use. Not easy.




Earplugs Are For Wimps!
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speakerguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2023 at 5:22am
DB technologies is who makes the amps in later rcf products. I think the original class AB amps used in the First art series and Mackie speakers were built in house by rcf.

After years of experience I have found that there is nothing like the first amps that Rcf made. I have had almost every new Rcf speaker and they sound good until you go back and listen to some of their older products and you will be blown away. the dynamics, transients, quality and power are unmatched by the the new class D models. the new class D amps from Rcf are definitely better than most other class D amps on the market and they sound fine but when I put my Rcf art 7 series next To my Mackie Srm 450 v1 (made by Rcf) they couldn't hold up. the Mackies have such precision and the imaging is out of this world along side all of the other analog characteristics, the new products sound somewhat week and flat even with 1400 watts that they are rated at.

I also recently purchased the new art 945a. I wanted to give them a try hoping that maybe they have advanced the digital amps after 20 yers of development. also they have new Fir phase filters. Sadly there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. they definitely Sound better than my art 7 and art 4 series but still the Mackies have an edge when you do a side by side comparison. it just sucks that the 945s cost me nearly 5 grand and they still aren't as good as the OGs. it seems no matter how much you spend, old School equipment wins.
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Points: 748 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2023 at 12:50pm
Hold up... you prefer a Mackie srm450 mk1 over a RCF Art 7?
I would really like to know what 7 series you got there.

I have directly compared the Mackie srm450 mk1 with RCF ART732a mk4.
And others at the same time.

The mackies can't keep up SPL wise without sounding distressed. And sound quality is limping along. 732a mk4 runs circles around that Mackie box.
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lickweed View Drop Down
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Points: 2485 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lickweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2023 at 7:53pm
+1 , 945a is way better and louder box then srm450 mk1
http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/
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Points: 474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KDW32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2023 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by lickweed lickweed wrote:

+1 , 945a is way better and louder box then srm450 mk1

Same as. I'm not sure srm450 was ever  a good speaker. It was bad as a DJ monitor.
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Wikl109 View Drop Down
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Points: 960 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2023 at 10:46pm
The original SRM-450 wasn't a bad box at all, quite ground breaking for it's time infact. However it was voiced with that typical 'American PA' shouty upper midrange character, like all the Peavey and JBL boxes from that era sounded.
I'm aware the original 450 was basically a cab designed by RCF.
I don't like modern class D amp modules, all manufacturers seem to use them now. Be it American, Chinese or European.
I don't think they are all that unreliable just much harder to repair when they go wrong.
Cheers, Chris.
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speakerguy1 View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speakerguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2023 at 7:13am
I forgot to mention a few points. First off I wasn’t talking about max SPL and loudness of the speakers. The Srm 450 has a class AB amp and once you switch into class B you loose quality and Power. The newer Rcf’s will handle higher SPL levels better. My main purpose for them isn’t high output applications. I’m using the srm 450s for a high res application. I’m also using them crossed over with Rcf subs, they have set EQ and also a preamp/DAC. Under these circumstances the class AB amplifies perform better. They produce a better soundstage, dynamics and imaging. with high res lossless, Dolby atmos, MQA and DSD audio they deliver a much better experience than the class d amplifiers do.

I understand that for most people new RCF speakers are more ideal. They are better for high output live applications and stand alone use (without subs). Also reliability is better. And they handle better when pushing max SPL levels.

I was simply talking about differences between class AB and class D amplifiers. Everyone has different uses and different uses call for different products.

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