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Wedge View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 November 2017 at 2:06pm
Hi,

new to the forum here - enjoyed reading some of the articals so far.

I had a look for some info on this question but didnt find anything.

I'm building some small cabinets (hog scoop style) to go in my garage. (I needed a new project)

I wondered how most people run the cable/wire inside of the cabinet - should it be fixed down to prevent it from vibrating around?

I will be running it from the back of the driver to a speaker terminal in the back of the cabinet.

I want to have the treminals so that i can move the speakers around in future without loads of cable hangin out the back.


FYI, the drivers are some old philips ones 7" - might not sound great but will hopefully add some bass and look interesting.

cheers
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Wait....small, hog scoop style?

Small hog scoop?

You can't scale down a scoop design. That doesn't work. It will sound awful unless you model the new horn dimensions in Hornresp and can get a reasonably flat response, but you won't get that with a 7" Hog scoop.

If you're dead set on some kind of experimental bass enclosure for your philips drivers, about your only option will be to 'best guess' the ts parameters (unless you can find them) and model it in a tappee horn.

If you don't even want to do that you should still build it into a tapped horn (think tham10 style), if you're going to guess that will have the highest probability of working okay. Or just play it safe and build a reflex.
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Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

Wait....small, hog scoop style?

Small hog scoop?

You can't scale down a scoop design. That doesn't work. It will sound awful unless you model the new horn dimensions in Hornresp and can get a reasonably flat response, but you won't get that with a 7" Hog scoop.

If you're dead set on some kind of experimental bass enclosure for your philips drivers, about your only option will be to 'best guess' the ts parameters (unless you can find them) and model it in a tappee horn.

If you don't even want to do that you should still build it into a tapped horn (think tham10 style), if you're going to guess that will have the highest probability of working okay. Or just play it safe and build a reflex.



...or to answer your question, yes either glue it down all the way from the terminal to to just before the driver and leave just enough slack to be able to remove the driver without yanking the cable or pin it/staple it down somehow.

Do let us see your 7" hog when you throw it together as it's always fun seeing people make sawdust and scaled down designs.
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Maybe fun but at least take the hornresp input of a hog, scale it down and put a generic 7 inch hifi driver params in so you know what you're getting in for - and if you don't want to or know how to I will!

You'll be looking at some crazy peak and troughs and quite probably in all the wrong places (a massive trough in the critical 120hz region with big peaks either side is quite likely).

Edit: I can see on reflection that it seems I'm being very harsh about your idea, but it really wouldn't be unusual to end up with a 10dB peak and 10dB trough in the wrong places with a design like this, and you can get a rough idea very easily before building. Tapped horn designs can still be adjusted to look amazing, visually, if that's a big priority.

Edited by Hemisphere - 21 November 2017 at 4:44pm
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Wedge View Drop Down
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Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2017 at 10:22pm
Hi thanks for the reply, I appreciate the insight.

I'm new to this so have lots of ideas going around.
I know little about sound physics but can tell good from bad.

I've no idea of the ts of the drivers, I'll try to find some specs... they are however old.. by the fake wood effect plastic enclosures, I'm guessing 70s-80s.

Thanks for the suggestion of a tham10 box, I've just read a bit about them and sounds promising.
I'll try to draw up a scaled down tham10 tomorrow. Do you know of any reliable/trusted plans I could follow?

Thanks for the suggestion for the wiring I'm going to make some straps from a thin plastic or rubber and staple wire down with those.

Cheers
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Unlikely you'll find the specs of 1970's hifi drivers.

The plan for the THAM10 is on the Martinsson.cc website.

Edit: Wrong driver input params!

So I was about to eat my words after scaling down a Hog scoop sim (proportionate 18" to 7") and running what I thought was a cheapo 6.5" Visaton driver (http://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_en.htm?http://www.lautsprechershop.de/chassis/visaton_fullrange_en.htm#V-31065), and it offered a fairly reasonable looking plot.. before realising Hornresp has a weird habit of holding a set of default driver parameters on the clipboard rather than what's on the system clipboard.

Anyway take two.. it's about as horrible as I suspected, but not in quite the same way. Peaks with an excellent 103dB sensitity at 130Hz so it will kick pretty hard (limited to about 5w input though, assuming excursion capacity of 2mm or so which is generous for such an old driver - could be 2 or 3w input).

Drops off 10dB to 93dB by 101.5Hz, 83dB at 66Hz. Pretty bumpy above 130 also.

If it does perform like the sim that's a phenomenal efficiency boost for an 87dB hifi driver though. It won't have any real bass, but it'll be LOUD for almost no power, especially in a corner.



Edited by Hemisphere - 22 November 2017 at 4:46pm
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Interesting..
I'm trying not to get too carried away with this project but the temptation is there. I'm going to check and see if I can get two boxes built out of an 8x4 sheet.
When I scaled down the hog design, the wall thickness of the wood got down to 7mm so I was planning on using some 9mm MDF. 
I'll check on cad the wood usage and then think about making a hog and a tham style and see which sounds better.
Will hopefully get some of the panels cut on the CNC at work and then do the rest on the table saw. Roll on the weekend. Thanks again for the advice
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If you double the depth of the scaled hog and made the path length longer (double if you can) you may see a small bass response that could be useable.

The tham10 (and more over the tham6) would work better then the scaled hog... and less messing around when trying to run the driver cable the horn path to a back plate.
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wedge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 6:20am
thanks again for the advice.

I've nearly finished building the tham style enclosure, just got to fit the side this weekend.
I'd like to post a few pictures as a build thread, could a moderator advise if I could have a link from this thread to the new one? Or should I just continue this thread with the build?

Would any of you be able to advise on where I could get a cheap crossover from?
Thanks
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Get a cheapish dsp, Tham's require a good high pass at low cut off, you will not get this with a cheap xover, plus you will get all the other features, an Ultradrive is your best bet economy wise.
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Points: 699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Risc_Terilia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2018 at 11:13am
I shouldn't worry about cables vibrating, it's never been a problem for me and I've never done anything to mitigate it.  To be honest if your cables are light enough to be moved by bass you're probably not using thick enough cables in the first place.  
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thanks

The cable I'm using is fairly thick so shouldn't be an issue.
As this is a cheap hobby project, the budget will not even scratch the surface of getting a dsp.
It may not perform the best but is there a cheap crossover that would work?
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