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Witch driver instead of the PD1850 aka witch amp

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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:14am
Playing Dub?

Sell cabs
Sell Crest CPX2600s

Keep drivers.
Get 4x 1850 scoops
Buy Inf8MK2, CA18, MA5000VZ.

Sorted.



Edited by levyte357- - 08 January 2013 at 12:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2013 at 4:51pm
Hy Guys

First of all thank you for the many helpfull answers!

Now to all the open Questions:

- Our crossover points are: 35hz-80hz for the X1, 80hz-200hz for the Es18, 200hz-1.2kz for the mids and from there up to 20kz.

- We play monostacks from time to time. But we run our system in stereo so we prefer 2 stacks.

- Yes, the system is time alligned, i don't know the exact data right now, but i can get it if you like.

- Yes, it is a Proline3000 in the pic. We power the 4 Es18 (Pd186 loaded) with it.

-Yeah we play dub. But mostly Dubstep. And other bassheavy electronic music. So we are pretty happy with the sound of the X1. But friends of us run 6 Trubomax loaded scoops, they are defo pretty deadly!


It seems like trying a bigger amp would be the best to do at the moment, so we go for this. We will try the proline3000 on one side and compare it to the cpx as you said. And maybe a Inf8, which we maybe can borrow from friends. I will tell you 'bout the results guys! Smile

If this would work better (which i assume), would it be a possibility to run the 4 X1 with 2 bridged Proline3000?

And would i be a possibility to play the Proline 3000 on 2 Ohm? If the case happens that we build another pair of X1's.

Thank you again!
Greetings
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2013 at 9:29am
Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:


And would i be a possibility to play the Proline 3000 on 2 Ohm? If the case happens that we build another pair of X1's.

Definitely not! I posted a similar question in the amp section a while ago, asking if a Proline 3000 could drive 6 186's - (Lev's) answer was negative. 6 1850s would be even more underpowered. 

Try switching kick and sub amps, proline on sub and CPX on kick. 

Btw why do you cut your X1's off at 35 Hz? 

big up, 

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2013 at 10:32am
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

...6 1850s would be even more underpowered ... Try switching kick and sub amps, proline on sub and CPX on kick. 


I see, so its 1 Proline for 2 1850. If we build another pair of X1's we have to get another proline. Number 3 allready...damn my back hurts allready! Yeah, thats where we heading at. We will test it in a few days hopefully. Smile


Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Btw why do you cut your X1's off at 35 Hz?


Well, because most music producers cut off @ 35 hz anyway. In dubstep 35/40-80 hz are the really important frequencies.

Plus i read once that if you got a wide range the driver has to cover it all of course. this means you will spend power on maybe 30 hz when you really need it around 60 or 80. i read it in german, its hard to translate it to english... i don't know if you know what i mean..
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2013 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:

we have to get another proline. Number 3 allready... 
 I'm not sure I got that right, are you saying you already have TWO proline 3000 ? If so, there should be no problem..... one 1850 per channel, sorted!  :)

I'd suggest you also try to run the CPX in parallel mono for kick, not bridged. One driver per channel @ 8 ohms

Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:

damn my back hurts already!
I know the feeling LOL

btw, how do you wire your system? And do you always stack the X1s upright?

cheers,

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2013 at 2:05pm
it's worth spending the money on some big amps for big sub drivers.

i cut my x1s off at 35hz / 48db butterworth. i used to run them down to 32 or so but don't notice any difference... they're plenty subby hi passed at 35.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2013 at 7:29am
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I'm not sure I got that right, are you saying you already have TWO proline 3000 ? If so, there should be no problem..... one 1850 per channel, sorted!  :)


I meant if we build another pair of X1, we will need another proline3000. 1 proline for 2 X1's Smile

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I'd suggest you also try to run the CPX in parallel mono for kick, not bridged. One driver per channel @ 8 ohms


i guess thats not enough power for our drivers, we got pd186 loaded. they got 700 watt rms and the amp only got 2x 500 watt @ 8 ohm, guess we have to bridge it @ 4 ohm...

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

btw, how do you wire your system? And do you always stack the X1s upright?


what du you mean with wire our system? you mean if we use parallel circuit and stuff? yeah, till know we always got them upright, the kicks fit so perfect Wink

Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

it's worth spending the money on some big amps for big sub drivers.


What do you mean with BIG amps? Like the proline 3000 or more like Inf8, Ca18 and so on?
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2013 at 11:20am
i have void loaded X1s, and i've never used a proline amp, but from all i've read about them, they will do a good job on x1s one a side. i have used matrix xp3000, similar specs to proline, one a side, were great. these days i'm using pkn xd4000, normally just one x1 a side, but they'll do 2 just fine.

i just meant that it's worth giving them enough power.. however you do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2013 at 9:50pm
Hi Tengu, 

I have some more thoughts, and just to make sure: I'm not tyring to patronize you, just brainstorming Smile 

Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:

I meant if we build another pair of X1, we will need another proline3000. 1 proline for 2 X1's Smile

You still didn't clarify if you currently have one or two proline 3000.

Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I'd suggest you also try to run the CPX in parallel mono for kick, not bridged. One driver per channel @ 8 ohms

i guess thats not enough power for our drivers, we got pd186 loaded. they got 700 watt rms and the amp only got 2x 500 watt @ 8 ohm, guess we have to bridge it @ 4 ohm...

well, the power rating is only one parameter. The difference between 500 and 700 Watts is not that big.... it's only 1,5 dB, so you wouldn't be loosing that much.  

On the other hand, in 4 ohm bridge mode, the damping factor will go down (each channel running @ 2 ohms), and distortion is up to 1% instead of 0.01% (check the manual p.33).  

By not bridging you would probably get a nicer sound. 

here's a nice little paper on damping:

all the "badman amps" have a very high damping factor (e.g. CA18: 800)


Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:

what du you mean with wire our system? you mean if we use parallel circuit and stuff? 
I mean the details of how you connect your speakers to the amps. One cable for each box, or one cable for two boxes on a bridged amp. Wire gauge (1,5 mm^2 or 2,5 mm^2 or 4 mm^2)......

This also influences the damping factor. 

Would be nice to hear your system some time - we're based in the black forest in southern Germany, close to Switzerland   Wink

cheers,

Bob

PS: Turbomax loaded scoops in Switzerland? Would like to hear that as well...... Big smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tengu Collective Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2013 at 8:13am
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I have some more thoughts, and just to make sure: I'm not tyring to patronize you, just brainstorming Smile

Your help is always welcome, thank you Smile

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

You still didn't clarify if you currently have one or two proline 3000. / I mean the details of how you connect your speakers to the amps.

Ok ok, so here we go, our current setting:

SUB A: Crest CPX Bridge Mode = Parallel circuit cable = 2x X1 à 4 Ohm (one cable for two boxes)
SUB B: Crest CPX Bridge Mode = Parallel circuit cable = 2x X1 à 4 Ohm (one cable for two boxes)
KICKS: Proline 3000 Stereo Mode = 2x Parallel circuit cable = 4x Es18 BPH à 4 Ohm ((one channel for two boxes)

so currently we own just one proline, if the tests work out well we may get a second one...

I have to check about the cabel thickness n stuff, post that later...
edit: we use this cable: http://www.thomann.de/de/the_sssnake_sll22520_speakonkabel.htm

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:


well, the power rating is only one parameter. The difference between 500 and 700 Watts is not that big.... it's only 1,5 dB, so you wouldn't be loosing that much.  On the other hand, in 4 ohm bridge mode, the damping factor will go down (each channel running @ 2 ohms), and distortion is up to 1% instead of 0.01% (check the manual p.33).  By not bridging you would probably get a nicer sound.

Thank you! Thats very helpfull, i didnt knew that! Very interessting, i will try it that Smile

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Would be nice to hear your system some time - we're based in the black forest in southern Germany, close to Switzerland

Yeah mate! Your allways welcome, we run a clubnight in St.Gallen called "fraction". You run a system yourself?

-> facebook.com/tengucollective

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Turbomax loaded scoops in Switzerland? Would like to hear that as well......

They run six of them, pretty heavy. They also got a clubnight called "Dub Corner" in St.Gallen.

-> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-Rivah-Sound-System/142632439130707


Greetings & Thanks 4 your help and support!
1 Love


Edited by Tengu Collective - 11 January 2013 at 12:44pm
TENGU COLLECTIVE

The one original dubstep sound out the east of switzerland.

tengucollective.ch
facebook.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/tengucollective
soundcloud.com/djtaiken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2013 at 1:21pm
IIRC from the early posts about the X1 when Rog posted it, he recommend the box to be stacked with both ports on the ground. Meaning you need to rotate your boxes for 90 degrees.
That way the ports are coupling with the floor and you get some more low end and a few more db's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2013 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:


Yeah mate! Your allways welcome, we run a clubnight in St.Gallen called "fraction". You run a system yourself?

-> facebook.com/tengucollective

Thank you for the invitation! I'm away during the semesters, but will be in southern Germany during the summer. I'll try to make it to St Gallen some time.

Yes, I do run a system called "Dogtown HiFi" with my brother and a close friend. We're based in Rottweil you know, hence the name...... Wink

https://www.facebook.com/dogtownhifi


Originally posted by Tengu Collective Tengu Collective wrote:


Greetings & Thanks 4 your help and support!
1 Love

you're welcome! Embarrassed

I'm looking forward to hear the conclusions from your amplifier experiments!

Take care & have a nice + successful 2013

best regards,

Bob 
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