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Your suggestion for 18" + 15" plans

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SouthwestCNC View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2017 at 11:39pm
Why not stick with the 1850's? just get a couple more for a bigger coupling effect. No sub needed.

I always think if you have horns it's better to have all horns, and vice Versa. With reflex you get better vocals than bph, if you want the same clarity from a horn you need front loaded so gets a bit more complicated to make a fully horn loaded system a good all rounder. 1850 flh kicks and mid top horn ;)

Might need more mid and top tho with 4 1850's.

Edited by SouthwestCNC - 24 March 2017 at 11:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 3:13am
Build 4x tham18s and sell EVERYTHING else.

Easy transport and play well across the board!

If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 9:28am

Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Why not stick with the 1850's? just get a couple more for a bigger coupling effect. No sub needed. 
 

Depending on what "repetitive electronic music" means, he might be happy with the sound of a stack of 1850s  -  the big question would be, do those RCFs work well enough in the 1850? 

In this thread:


Someone suggested that it should work in front loaded horns, but who knows? Does anyone have 186/1850 hornresp inputs? Someone did a loooooong thread posting sims of the X1 with various drivers, is there a similar thread for 1850 horns? I only found a thread with Realitysounds' shortlist of drivers. Our particular RCF  we're discussing here is not on that list


Unless someone with experience of this particular driver/cab combo chimes in, or someone does a hornresp sim, building 1850s would be a gamble. What if the RCF craps out? Reflex build would be a lot easier. Also someone already provided some parameters. Or maybe Conanski could measure his cabs? 

Of course matthies00 could also put a pair of RCFs in plea of the eminence omegas and do some testing/measurements to see for himself if 1850s would be worth the trouble.
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 12:50pm
If thats correct:

Qes 0.38
Qms 6.0
Qts 0.36
Fs   38.7
Vas 200 litres
Sd   1041 cm^2
BL   21.8
Re   5.7
Pe   1000 W
Xmax 4.5 mm

There is no way it will work good in something designed for pd1850.
Its weak speaker anyway. Rather br option.
Edit
This 18" eminence has a little better ts parameters maybe not for 1850 but it could be option for 186 horns. Sell those rcfs, buy 2 more omegas. Should get flat resp to 40 hz, but have to cut them on minimum 45hz due to excursion.

Edited by gen0me - 25 March 2017 at 1:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by gen0me gen0me wrote:


This 18" eminence has a little better ts parameters

Hi,
just curious, how are the TSPs of the Eminence better? It has very low Fs(25 Hz), little bit lower Qs than RCF, but only marginally (0,3 mm) better xmax, and lower BL than RCF. 


OP is probably quite confused by now...... Ouch LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by gen0me gen0me wrote:

If thats correct:

Xmax 4.5 mm


According to this sheet:

http://members.home.nl/vanmeijeren/forum/rcf.pdf

xmax 9 mm!!!

that datasheet has all the neccesary TS parameters needed for simulations in WINISD....

I'd say make six simple ~150 litre boxes tuned to ~41-42 Hz, put L18-851 in them, put 3-4 kW of clean power into it and enjoy 138 dB  40Hz up.... (according to optimistic, quick  WINISD sim Big smile)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I'd say make six simple ~150 litre boxes tuned to ~41-42 Hz, put L18-851 in them, put 3-4 kW of clean power into it and enjoy 138 dB  40Hz up.... (according to optimistic, quick  WINISD sim Big smile)


Job-f##king-done!!!
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matthies00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 5:26pm
We did put the RCF in 1850 horn, replaced the eminence. As for me it played LOUD and very nice, very similar to what eminence was giving.
But it is f**kin heavy.... that's also why we are thinking about rebuild.
Someone mentioned Cubo - those looks very nice and compact, but no clue how will work with the speakers. We will try to make one sample and check it.

18" RCF are now im some kind of box.
IT all looks like this now:

The drivers on top (blue and black), are history.
RCF Box made of plywood #18mm diameters INSIDE:
486 depth
521 width
599 high

There is a baxx reflex, a square hole for full width of the box. Highness 40mm and depth 194mm

But as you can see, no way to put it all together in resonable way :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 5:56pm

Originally posted by matthies00 matthies00 wrote:



But as you can see, no way to put it all together in resonable way :(

nice pile of speakers there Clap

You are right, your problem is that if you try to use all of them together the result will be not very good (as you probably already found out). Better to simplify, just build 6x the same cab that works well with RCFs -> you won't believe the difference Big smile 



Originally posted by matthies00 matthies00 wrote:

RCF Box made of plywood #18mm diameters INSIDE:
486 depth
521 width
599 high

There is a baxx reflex, a square hole for full width of the box. Highness 40mm and depth 194mm

thats about 147 litres external volume. internal volume will be at least 10 - 20 litres less depending on bracing, port etc….

I'm no expert by any means, but that thin and long port looks wrong. I would guess it's tuned much too low to work well. The RCF needs a tuning around 40 Hz to limit excursion. Also the size and form of the port probably makes it very likely to compress and produce noise. Have you ever heard some kind of blowing/farting noises from these boxes at high level?

You would definitely need to build some new cabs if you decide to do reflex, and make sure they are tuned appropriately. Other people on this forum can help you figure out the tuning and actual build plan. I don't think you can modify the old ones. Shame though if they are built from good 18mm ply...


Originally posted by matthies00 matthies00 wrote:

We did put the RCF in 1850 horn, replaced the eminence. As for me it played LOUD and very nice, very similar to what eminence was giving. 
But it is f**kin heavy.... that's also why we are thinking about rebuild.

LOL 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by matthies00 matthies00 wrote:


Someone mentioned Cubo - those looks very nice and compact,


about cubo:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Heard all sorts of Cubo, they're all a bit crap to be honest. Too much compromise.

no disrespect tho to anyone using cubos....... Embarrassed




Edited by bob4 - 25 March 2017 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 8:46pm
Bee's 1850 hornresp parameters here:

https://freespeakerplans.com/forum/8-advanced-discussion/8687-horn-resp-for-beginners

And some others. Very helpful info there from bee.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2017 at 8:58pm
How about a four 18sound 18" manifolded twin. Big boxes but heard some decent reviews about them.
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