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6th order BP kick section

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lukam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lukam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6th order BP kick section
    Posted: 13 February 2010 at 9:18am
Hi!

I have been busy with some sketchup ideas. I'm trying to make a kick sectionin for the porn horn V2 in the box with a 15" 6th order bandpass.
There would be 2 ports one above the HF horn and one under the MF horn. The front and rear chamber would be seperate between the two horns. I was planing to place the tunings around 70 and 130hz the maximal volumes availible are around 25L for the hi tuning and 65L for the low tuning. The exact volumes I don't know because I don't have the porn yet. I'm gonna use drivers from RCF or B&C.  Would port turbolance affect the HF response since the port is above the horn? 
I know  designing a 6th order BP is not gonna be easy I dont have much experiance designing 6th order BP so any help would be appreciated.
I have simulated a bunch of drivers with winisd but I don't know what TS parameters to look for for a good 6th order BP.
The porns would go above LABhorns so a 90hz cut max. I could also built some USBs but I want to have things in one box and as compact as possible.

Here some images for better understanding







Edited by lukam - 13 February 2010 at 6:36pm
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tomschute View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomschute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2010 at 5:24pm
interesting project.

Looks like you know what you're doing. Chances are you'll have to have a play with tuning even if you had exact volumes if your baseing your design purely on WinISD.

Get yourself a suitable mic, RTAnalysis software and some white noise going on.

I would say though that a band pass for kick seems a little odd if you have horn loaded everywhere else. How about a BPH aka HD15 section under the 12" section?
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FlipC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlipC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2010 at 3:16am
Definitely interesting.

>How about a BPH aka HD15 section under the 12" section?
We assume that he wants to keep the size of the porn horn to its normal size and just use unused space.

I don't see why this couldn't work.
The correct driver is going to be key.  Estimate the amount of space you have and find the highest SPL driver that will work for the space.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2010 at 4:14am
Originally posted by tomschute tomschute wrote:

interesting project.Looks like you know what you're doing. Chances are you'll have to have a play with tuning even if you had exact volumes if your baseing your design purely on WinISD.Get yourself a suitable mic, RTAnalysis software and some white noise going on.I would say though that a band pass for kick seems a little odd if you have horn loaded everywhere else. How about a BPH aka HD15 section under the 12" section?
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lukam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lukam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2010 at 9:21am
Originally posted by FlipC FlipC wrote:


We assume that he wants to keep the size of the porn horn to its normal size and just use unused space.

I don't see why this couldn't work.
The correct driver is going to be key.  Estimate the amount of space you have and find the highest SPL driver that will work for the space.


Exactly!

I'm trying to make the boxes as small as possible and use the unused space. I know that the driver selection is going to be the key.

So what driver do you think would be the best? One with heavier or lighter cones. I'm afraid that the cone will break if its to weak (lighter cones). Maybee a rcf LF15n401 or MB15N351. The MB would be more efficient but dont know what will happen with the cone at higher volumes.

When I get the horns and driver I have some measurement gear and will measure everything.
I have already some P.audio SN-12b lying here.Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2010 at 10:40am
Ultimately you're probably looking for drivers with low Qes/Qts (0,2-0,3), high Fs (45>), lowish Vas (<130 L)and lowish Le (~1,3 mH). High Xmax (7mm >) and 3"VC or bigger are always welcome. 
 
What's the compression ratio on the horn part, what's the crossover part and how much are you going to power these supposebly?
 
Regards Johan
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lukam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lukam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2010 at 1:43pm
From what you say the B&C 15NW76 would be nice. FS 42, Qes 0,23, Qts 0,22, Vas 130L, Le 1,25mH and Xmax 8mm.
The simulation also looks good for rear chamber 60L at 70Hz and front chamber 20L at 140Hz. But measurements will tell.

I dont know what compression ratio you mean? For the porn horn I dont know. The porn horn plays down to 130Hz so I would cross over them around 130-160Hz must see. The low cut off for the bandpass would be arround 80Hz. I have 1000W availible to power the kick section.

I dont know how will a BP sound compared to a say USB, what you guys think?

Regards
Luka 
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csg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2010 at 12:25pm
I think your biggest problem will be in sensitivity - i think it will be hard for the bp6 section to keep up with the rest of the box
 
but, certainly an interesting idea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2010 at 12:26pm
could another idea be to take the meyer aproach and relex load the rear chamber of the 12" section - they do this on the MSL4 to good effect, that runs down to 65Hz ewith just one 12" and 2" per cab
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmatter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2010 at 12:47pm
I was going to say exactly what CSG said, seems a waste to limit yourself to the sensitivity of the single driver kick section when you have such a potent mid-top combo.
 
Not sure a BP6 alignment would have the ideal transient response/group delay for kick, and using such a small bandwidth might be a headache in terms of integrating it with the boxes above/below?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PolymorphicMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2010 at 8:11pm
I've found light cones work well in 6BP that need to reach mid kick bass/mid bass frequencies. I used the 18sound 18ND930 in 6bp (light cone for an 18) and measured -3b 47hz - 136hz. Sounded good crossed at about 120hz.

I would probably chose the MB15N351 because of it's very high efficiency (5% i think of the head), plus high fs, and Qts of 0.28 to 0.32 work well in 6bp tuned in the kick bass region.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2010 at 10:30pm
I heard lots of BP6, but I never liked any of them above ~80Hz. All kick BP6 have failed to impress me, I wouldn't consider using such a design for kick. This is not a matter of taste, but a matter of how true one wants to stay to the original signal.
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