Advertised freq ranges and getting more low (186)

Single 1850 horn has -3dB point at around 60-70hz if derived/averaged from frequency range of 50-200hz.  It is usable to 50hz or so with some EQ

Four 1850 horns in one stack have -3dB point at 43hz and is pretty much flat to 200hz within 6dB windows (+/-3dB)
Four 186 horns in one stack sound like they'd go bit louder than stack of 1850 horns.

Marketing is 99% full of shit.

Is better you just build cabs that meet your spec.

Not many horn designs around that will properly achieve at least 40hz, needed for Hip Hop.

Stack of 4x WSX or 4x Superscoopers will do it with ease.

Think there is guy on your island with Superscoopers + V18-1000, and heard he trembles the ground.

Trinidad_12 wrote: I hear what your saying  levyte357, it's a tough call because I need the punch and low bass. My single 18's make a lot of building rattling bass, but don't throw thump very far, I wanna hear the low bass but feel the thump into the crowd like at 8+ meters. Some dj's down here use bass reflex and some use 3 or more horns per side, it's really tough to decide were to put the money.

WSX will do everything, but difficult build.

Superscooper will do all you want, simpler build.

You still need high power driver, and decent sub amps to project sub over 8M, so forget cheapy Eminence.

Trinidad_12 wrote: Found the plans for the WSX here http://forum.speakerplans.com/burn-it-or-sex-it-up_topic60272_page2.html I'll check out the super scooper as well. I don't play all hip-hop, but when I do, you can hear it right away when your speaker doesn't make low bass.

http://forum.speakerplans.com/martin-wsx-my-version-foto_topic7270_page1.html

its about efficiency, NOT how powerful your driver and amplifier combo is - although they make a difference to the maximum output of a cabinet, a more efficient design will save you money in the long run.

You must understand that when the cutoff is stated, on here at least it is the useable cutoff, so the 186 horn singular is 51hz-215hz +-3db, meaning the response over all those frequency's are +-3db of each other. Looking at the frequency plot included, you will see that it is flattish to 60hz @105db/1w efficiency, going to 101db/1w @ 50hz, and ~97db/1w at 40hz. This would mean 60hz would come out effectively 8db louder than 40hz with no system EQ added [8db = nearly 8x the power, and would cause the excursion to grow massively, likely beyond the capability of the driver]. Add more cabinets in one pile and that lowend efficiency comes up bit by bit giving you a better lowend response [by the horn mouths coupling].

certain manufacturers, often the more lowend market folk like Cerwin Vega, will give marketing figures, saying either 30-500hz +-10db because their market wont often know that the -10db means certain frequencies like 30hz will be 10db quieter [or half the 'volume'], thus not heard thus pointless, or they often state a useage range such as 30-200hz, at 110db/1w efficiency*, with small print later in the documents saying something like '*burst rating at 1khz' which has absolutely no relevance to the product in question which wont even be used in that frequency. Many many brands do this, worryingly so including some 'pro' brands, vega just mentioned as you named them earlier.

regardless of this, you also need to pick the right cab for the job. Generally speaking, horns are for big piles in big gigs - the midtops will often have tight dispersion needing an array of them to give wide coverage, and the subs will need many coupled to get a 'useable' frequency response - such as the 186 horn, designed to be used in 4+ quantities - not a problem if you always take out a 7.5ton truck for large capacity audiences. If you plan on using less for smaller gigs, then you will have to accept the sacrifice in output at the low-end. Front loaded/reflex cabs and bandpass cabs will generally work the same regardless of using one or 100, much more ideal to modular use of hitting different sized venues, and not having to bring 3tons of horns for a vicars tea party - but have the sacrifice of lower efficiency compared to horns.

as an old user of the PD186 horn [with pd186 loaded], i will add this. I only had 2/side, but coped well enough at low-end for my liking - there was tons of kick, and plenty of bass to 45hz where i high-passed. This was before the noise that is 'bass music', which they wouldn't have liked - but nor would i! In most genres, there is rarely anything below 40hz, with most bass-lines perceived as 'low', being 40-50hz range - and regardless of that, not many commercial/domestic systems even play that low, so the average punter wouldn't miss the lowest bass anyway. If there is a solid 50hz+ enforcement, 99% of people will go away with a smile on their faces.

In terms of the WSX, still need to take them out in quantities to deliver any proper low-end, the laws of physics don't change, its a horn. Only way a single horn will play super low is by massively extreme excursion drivers at expense of efficiency [car audio], or a big-ass long horn path.

Other cabs like scoops & bandpass, are efficient in their ways due to their limited passband they cover, say 35hz-80hz, needing something else equally efficient to cover the upper bass [kick] region, be it manly mid drivers, or a dedicated kick section. Great for larger rigs where carrying around a 4way rig is doable, crap for small venues when you don't need much.

Reflex/front loaded are the least efficient per watt generally, but cover a wide passband, and can be very modular. say build 8x single18" subs, take 1/side for the vicars tea party, then 4/side for your sisters all night gabba 16th bday rave.... Same sound, just scaleable for different things. Less efficient than horns on a big gig yes, but gives you consistent sound over the full range of gigs out there.

You need to decide what is best for your needs, big or small, in or out, how you/crew are going to move them etc etc. No point in building up a massive horn loaded rig like many here do, when they are only getting <50people turning up, noise complaints made, and rigs confiscated/banned from venues/use, when a system that would have fitting in the back of the vicars family estate would have been sufficiently loud to get the job done, with much much less work.



Edited by mk2_ginger_biscuit69 - 23 November 2012 at 1:41pm

Otherwise yes, but understanding of human hearing seems to be bit lost. 3dB means doubling the power, but it is only a slight increase for hearing. 10dB mean 10x amp power but about twice as loud for hearing.