BC horns from standard FLHs

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   Citizensc thanks for the info you’ve been incredibly helpful! What exactly is the t-value representing? Given that last graph it certainly looks like a low t (assuming qts) would be best for a BC horn. This must be partially why Danley and Ivan Beaver say it’s not necessarily about using the most powerful driver in the BC designs, but rather a driver that best suits in other parameters. Have a couple ideas I’ll model/post soon! As for the labhorns it looks like the lab12 also has a fairly high qts but I’d still be curious what extension could be added there.

Edited by KaphaSound - 06 September 2020 at 1:17am

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KaphaSound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 22 July 2020 Status: Offline Points: 112	Post Options Post Reply Quote KaphaSound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 September 2020 at 5:47pm
	Citizensc thanks for the info you’ve been incredibly helpful! What exactly is the t-value representing? Given that last graph it certainly looks like a low t (assuming qts) would be best for a BC horn. This must be partially why Danley and Ivan Beaver say it’s not necessarily about using the most powerful driver in the BC designs, but rather a driver that best suits in other parameters. Have a couple ideas I’ll model/post soon! As for the labhorns it looks like the lab12 also has a fairly high qts but I’d still be curious what extension could be added there. Edited by KaphaSound - 06 September 2020 at 1:17am

KaphaSound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 22 July 2020 Status: Offline Points: 112	Post Options Post Reply Quote KaphaSound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2020 at 2:38am
	The B&C 15NW100 looks like a great fit from an initial glance. Qts of .22 and total EBP of over 140.

citizensc Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 16 October 2015 Location: Perth,Australia Status: Offline Points: 547	Post Options Post Reply Quote citizensc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2020 at 10:12am
	I think I will go with the SW115 or DS115, if you want max output from 4 cabs (why else would you build a BC horn), you would likely want a lot of power handling. Right now I am leaning towards the SW, the paper snowflake linked here suggests that building a super low T horn is not a good idea. Designing a horn around a driver with super high BL like the DS115 without a very high compression ratio, ripple and low T seems difficult. I will give both a try though.

doller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 19 July 2014 Location: japan Status: Offline Points: 538	Post Options Post Reply Quote doller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2020 at 10:14am


doller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 19 July 2014 Location: japan Status: Offline Points: 538	Post Options Post Reply Quote doller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2020 at 10:26am
	That is what would be possible with the labs. The biggest size you could cut out on the edge of the horn flare. I was thinking of stacking them like that same as the Danley. If it would work or not I have no idea. I am sorry for the pencil drawing but it was quick and I am very busy rite now. Maybe we are missing the point a bit here I don't think that it is about gaining spl and extension so much. Modern speakers are pretty bloody loud as they are. The point for me would be directivity I am interested in how that would sound. Because the bass would be more focused would it sound louder, cleaner? am I wrong in thinking that the Danley are less omnidirectional? More energy focused on the dance floor. Less wasted.

KaphaSound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 22 July 2020 Status: Offline Points: 112	Post Options Post Reply Quote KaphaSound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2020 at 4:27pm
	Yea I think directivity is a big part of it but with directivity comes extra sensitivity and extension if I’m not mistaken. I could also be completely wrong here but my incentive for making a BC horn is less about spl (considering these things max out beyond 140db which I will never want to subject anyone standing in-front to) and more about the size of the wavefront/tactile sensation. Again I could be wrong but in order to spread as much sound/weight as these BC horns you’d need like 4 or more double 18s to match the size of the face or a bunch of scoops or other horn designs just because of the conventional orientation of the mouth, and while I know this isn’t scientific at all I always find that standing infront of stacks of subs with a large mouth area/surface area comes with a much more visceral tactile sensation even at similar volumes. Edited by KaphaSound - 29 January 2025 at 1:39am

doller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 19 July 2014 Location: japan Status: Offline Points: 538	Post Options Post Reply Quote doller Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2020 at 10:06am
	agree 100percent kapha extension and spl would be a bonus. You could be very correct in thinking that 18's would be better. labs are great speakers but they need to be stacked high to get the wow effect. Like you I wouldn't want to subject people to 140db continuous. It's silly 139 is plenty. LOL But yes I have never heard the Danleys or the lambada labs. Really want to.

Jo bg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 March 2017 Status: Offline Points: 558	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jo bg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2020 at 12:35pm
	Nicest thing about a 140dB capable system is that you can do 130dBs at 1/10 of rated power, keeping the drivers happy and cool in the linear zone, minimizing power compression and distortion and maximising dynamics by allowing quick transients to pass uncompressed. It will sound effortless and clean compared to a 130dB system pushed to the max. And last longer.

Contour Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 03 March 2004 Status: Offline Points: 677	Post Options Post Reply Quote Contour Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2020 at 3:05pm
	Instead of cutting the eye, with possible risk to ruin your cab, perhaps you can reach same effect by placing the cabs front to front and then give bit of splay. Piece of board on top to close the v shaped gap. With different splay you can test optimal area of the eye...?

KaphaSound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 22 July 2020 Status: Offline Points: 112	Post Options Post Reply Quote KaphaSound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2020 at 7:50pm
	Jo bg agreed 100% here. I'm quite new to this, but initially I was planning on just picking up a Behringer NX6000 for one of these designs because I always read headroom will improve the sound, but would I be fine or better off with a much more trusted brand like Crown or QSC putting out only 1000 watts total to 2 paralleled 8ohm drivers for a total of 2 4ohm loads? In other words what would be better a trusted brand with less headroom or Behringer with more headroom? Because I also thought I've read that not enough power can do damage as well, but with these designs I can't fathom needing to run them anywhere near full power rating for the types of gigs I'm planning (maybe 200-500 people), especially considering hornresp is telling me I'm approaching 130db with only 80watts through 4 drivers??. Anyways here's some hornresp charts for the 15NW100: So an f3 of 33hz or so in 2pi and considering that some directivity should be taken into account we can assume a bit lower with some increased sensitivity. Group delay also looks good with about 25ms in the 30-100hz passband. The EBP of this particular driver is around 140 or so which may have to do with the reasonably tight group delay? Other reasons for choosing this driver were definitely cost and weight since the idea here is to make it portable with 2 people. Let me know any thoughts; looking forward to seeing citizensc's sims with the other B&C drivers as well! Now to just figure out how to fold this thing... Edited by KaphaSound - 09 September 2020 at 3:11pm

Jo bg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 March 2017 Status: Offline Points: 558	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jo bg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 September 2020 at 12:15pm
	Could you post impedance and excursion too? With 10 cm backchamber are you putting magnet in throat? You are not powering a heater with 80w continuous, music is dynamic, you have to allow for short peaks and transients that will require higher power , so in practice you will need way more if you don't want to clip amd compress. While they could be called the heart of the system, until you take them to limits (and hear the sound of limiters), amplifiers are the less important part in sound quality. Once you've got nuff voltage and a decent power supply, difference will be minimal compared to difference other parts of the system could make. A good quality driver, in a fitting enclosure built with proper ply and bracing, good processing and gain staging, will make an enourmous difference compared to difference in amplifiers, as long as those are operated within their limits. So in your case i would go with a new Berry with warranty, you will have double the power, instead of (usually overpriced) heavyweights with uncertain history and more failure probabilty. Unless you are going to rent or host a lot of events on this, then you may look for something more reliable and many times more expensive. But berrys are very good for beginners, warranty gives you 3 years of peace of mind. And new ones are way less ugly than the inukes i bought. Those served me well for almost three years until i upgraded to labs, but at 8 times the price , and more for added reliability and rentability than sound quality. There is an improvement but not overwhelming.

Jo bg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 March 2017 Status: Offline Points: 558	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jo bg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 September 2020 at 12:37pm
	you could try and sim the boundary by disjoining segments; double click on s1 (will turn red) will allow to input different values for s4 in the last two segments, allowing to simulate the abrupt change. a very short (0,1) last segment with s4 the size of the eye and s5 the size of the front will approssimate the flat front.