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BEST SPEAKER FOR HEAVY BASS REGGAE
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Joined: 01 September 2011
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Points: 116 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dubshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 9:06am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



It’s a bandpass box. 18sound site has the plans, Kutty has just made some mods to his taste.


Thank you
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Sinai Sound View Drop Down
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Points: 635 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinai Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 9:06am
Right then

Graphs

This is 4 x polar bear scoops measured outside



Single double 21"
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Hemisphere View Drop Down
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Points: 2244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2018 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Tonskulus Tonskulus wrote:

Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

Something is going on in the horn (or tapered vent if you like), which causes it to act at least somewhat like a BLH.

Indeed there is something.. 

What ever it is, would be nice to know the exact theory about what makes it louder.  Larger total radiation area maybe?
Larger 'mouth' certainly has something to do with it. Partial horn loading characteristics also. The RCF design for example does actually have some very basic expansion.

Let's say a standard reflex box with a pipe tube has zero horn loading characteristics, because what's the air going to do in that little pipe? It's behaviour is really limited. But the bigger the vent gets, and the more tapered the vent is (but it wouldn't necessarily need to be tapered to have a small effect provided it's big enough), the greater the portion of the soundwaves which travel through it that will take a path that approximates the path of a soundwave through a true horn, sufficiently to act as a true horn, and it would be that proportion which determines the extent to which the cabinet acts like a horn (in efficiency and coupling characteristics).

I guess.


Edited by Hemisphere - 18 January 2018 at 9:27am
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7844 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 12:51am
Our 21's. One box response.
Marjan Milosevic
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Points: 10932 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 2:47am
So that’s two rear loaded horns (scoops) that show -10dB at 30Hz, even with one of them being four boxes in one stack so a larger horn mouth...
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Points: 1352 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 8:05am
Cheers for posting the graphs guys.

So basically the data says they don't got as low as a double reflex of similar size but they push out more spl. Fair trade-off.

Seems in real world usage people in certain scenes like them and find the frequency response fine.

Don't really see the issue? I guess that the people that like them are claiming that they do have the extension in clusters but haven't backed it up with hard evidence?

Unless someone can point me to a scoop thread with this information?
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Looks like my educated guess from listening with tones of -6-8 @ 35 was pretty good?

Eq up with strong driver and voila
It's everything, not everythink!
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by JonB67 JonB67 wrote:

Cheers for posting the graphs guys.

So basically the data says they don't got as low as a double reflex of similar size but they push out more spl. Fair trade-off.

A Properly designed Double Reflex (Note: using drivers aimed solely for reflex cabinets) will surpass Scoops from 40 Hertz downwards whereas, Scoops will surpass reflex from 55 Hz upwards due to horn loading. This is based on a box versus box comparison.

The problem with many is not understanding the TS Parameters, using drivers that are aimed for Horns and Reflex loading, receiving adequate results using a reflex while, achieving excellent results in a Scoop. I have roughly 20 18-inch drivers retired sitting in cardboard cartons that could not meet the criteria needed for my reflex designs that were standards in Scoop cabinets 20+ years ago. 

There is a reason why, I can get away using no HPF while achieving 20 Hz with no ill affects. Understanding the TS Parameters, will give one a greater chance of achieving their goals. 

It is basic logics. If you have 4 Scoops that is -10 dB @ 30 Hz, and 4 Double Driver Reflex Cabinets that is 0 dB @ 30 Hz, the Scoop Cabinets are -10 dB @ 30 Hz compared to the Double Driver Reflex Cabinets when all cabinets are fed the same SPL at a starting point of 100 Hz. 

Best Regards, 



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 19 January 2018 at 11:05am
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Sinai Sound View Drop Down
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Points: 635 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinai Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 12:24pm
Just for comparison sake

This was measured indoors -  4 polars again

30hz 48db BW- 80hz 48db BW



Edited by Sinai Sound - 19 January 2018 at 12:24pm
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10932 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Sinai Sound Sinai Sound wrote:

Just for comparison sake

This was measured indoors -  4 polars again

30hz 48db BW- 80hz 48db BW





Curious why you went for 8th order slopes?
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luton_soundman View Drop Down
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Points: 4550 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote luton_soundman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 12:58pm
all scoops are different plus different amps and processing. Most roots dances i go to i dont hear or feel any 30-40hz. Alot of sounds virtually playing from 50hz up due to the amount of boost in the higher region. Even tho their hpf says 35hz etc its not there. Some people think if they see a graph its gospel. The graph only represents that individual and what he/she did during the measurement. 
Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Sinai Sound View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 November 2009
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Points: 635 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinai Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2018 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by Sinai Sound Sinai Sound wrote:

Just for comparison sake

This was measured indoors -  4 polars again

30hz 48db BW- 80hz 48db BW





Curious why you went for 8th order slopes?

These are what Mikko took years back ;)

They were in in the original polar bear thread here
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