Beyma 12LX60 in Punisher |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Looks like a good one ! Or the 12NW100 ... Edited by Peter Jan - 05 February 2009 at 8:18pm |
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massisoda
Registered User Joined: 18 February 2008 Location: Italy - Ivrea Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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good notice for Italians
after many pression on the Ciare Forum the Ciare 12.00SW will be commericalised with the name PW12.00SW |
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Italian Sound
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tomschute
Old Croc Joined: 15 May 2006 Location: Mid Wales Status: Offline Points: 1817 |
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Beyma 112NdW
looked good in horn resp too... http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BMA112NDW&product=Beyma_112NdW_12!dquote!_700w_AES_8_Ohm&browsemode=manufacturer |
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Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk
www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
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Meat
Old Croc Joined: 05 June 2009 Location: Manc Status: Offline Points: 1514 |
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The LX60 mkII came out recently; out has anybody tried them in puns yet?
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Don't test the champignon sound
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darkmatter
Old Croc Joined: 26 February 2005 Location: LDN Status: Offline Points: 2425 |
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Haven't tried them but here's a sim. Black LX60v2, grey LX60v1. In 1pi, single cab 2.83v input.
My guess is that as with the v1, an LX60v2 loaded punisher would still not be suitable as a sub and would need something under it. Edited by darkmatter - 01 June 2010 at 8:21pm |
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
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Hi Peter, do you still have 12LX60 in your punishers? Did you have any issues with the high loading on the cones? How hard have you been pushing them? I have punishers loaded with Ciare 12SW and i have wanted to try some other drivers in there, i have an 18sound 12LW1400 and a B&C TBX100 and i was considering buying a 12LX60 and doing some testing. Cheers. James |
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Sold them some years ago, but I do get some feedback from the current owner once in a while. He once burned up a few 12LX60 voicecoils (something to do with bridged amps, carnival, etc.. ), but never had problem with the cones. Whether other speakers are a better choice or not, depends on how you use them. The 12.00SW has the edge below 50-55 Hz and if used without true subs, it still is about the only speaker I know (in the Punisher) that can deliver down to 40-45 Hz. It takes big power to get it there and uses up that huge excursion capability, but it does the job, where most other speakers bottom out or burn up if fed the same power that low. As said earlier, if you have dedicated subs to go under the Punisher, other speakers (other than 12.00SW) are a better choice and give you a bit more freedom in the Punisher's high crossover point. When I used them with 12LX60, I let them start at about 50-55 Hz and BR subs overlap up to 60-80 Hz. Depending on what style music the gig was or how much "punch" I wanted to get out of the system, I played around with that overlapping region. 12LX60 is certainly not the only useable 12" for the Punisher. Back than I tested a few candidates that were handy for me to get, but any decent 12" with high(ish) BL, Q's around 0.3 and an Xmax of 7 mm and higher, can do the job. |
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
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Cheers Peter, TBH im more thinking about designing a 12" FLH running 40Hz-120Hz and i think trying some different drivers in my existing punishers will be a good place to start to see what drivers will play up that high without sacrificeing too much extension, and hopefully find the one that fits the bill, i have a few on hand so i might as well. Did you say on another forum that they could reach 40Hz in multiples with the 12LX60? I think ideally im probably looking for something in between the 2...
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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snowflake
Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3118 |
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what about the faital 12HP1060 ?
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Even in another larger and longer FLH and used in multiples, you'll be hard pressed to find a speaker that does as good a job as the 12.00SW in the lower regions. If you're talking ~50-55 Hz and up, the choice is almost endless and you don't need a larger/longer FLH to make it work good. 12LX60 or similar speakers do reach down to 40 Hz, but not as efficient as the 12.00SW. To match the 12.00SW with any other speakers in the Punisher, you need to EQ several dB and that takes power and more power is something you don't want in such a small rear chamber. No problem with 3-400 Watts or so, but I still have to meet someone who does not feed his/her Punisher(s) with +1000 Watts a piece . The 12.00SW is not a very efficient speaker by far, but it's set of parameters make it perform better (for the same power) by a few dB in the lower regions, compared to speakers that are more efficient on paper. The problem with speakers efficiency figures is that it's always an average figure, it says nothing about were the most efficiency is situated in combination with a certain style cabinet, tuning, etc.. On the high side, I would say try those speakers you have on hand and compare with the 12.00SW up to 120 Hz and over. For me that was about the highest I would take the 12.00SW in the Punisher, but maybe it might work for you. Other speakers worked better higher up, but not by much. The design of the Punisher with the speaker firing on a 90° angle into the horn is the limiting factor for good high extension, but I think high extension in the hundreds was not a goal when Walt designed it. If you want that, the speaker has to fire straight into the horn and have gentle 90° bends, no 180° folds. |
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Peter Jan
Young Croc Joined: 16 December 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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Same "problem" going on as I said before :
Another thing to keep in mind is that Xmax figure. Ciare does give the true figure, not so called mathematical calculated figure. Calculated the same way, the 12.00SW would have something close to 15 mm Xmax. Comparing apples with apples... Now if you want to know how good (or bad) any speaker does in the Punisher, first thing to do is at least sim it in Hornresp and weed out those that are not suitable. Edited by Peter Jan - 13 June 2014 at 10:41am |
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2716 |
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I dont run my punishers with 1000W+ but i dont like getting close to the edge. Ive tried running the 12SW higher but i think a lowpass at 90Hz is the best way to run them, 120Hz is pushing it a bit too far imo, The TBX100 looks good on paper, ill try it and the 12LW1400 and have a listen and take some measurements.
I know what you mean the 12SW has the most displacement, but i would accept a drop in mehanical power handleing if i could run 40-120Hz and sound good doing it. The Fane Colossus 12XB looks worth considering also, only has a 3 inch coil but the 8.5mm overhang is more than the Beyma, 18sound and the B&C, but they would be likely displacement limited running down to 40Hz anyway, Fane has much lower MMS so should be better higher up. I will simulate them all later and weed out the ones that are too far off, i suspect the beyma wont work. Fane looks promising... |
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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