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Class 4 lasers -Do I need a operating cert/license

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    Posted: 14 February 2019 at 9:31am
Before I start drooling over 2watt lasers with animation and the pricy software....I did a bit of checking....

From what I can see, any laser above 0.5Watts is a class 4 laser , capable of burning cloth and flesh.

I want to know I can cover my proverbial, and convince club owners to let me in as a credible operator.

Apart from the failsafe's below, is there a training course/license I need to be able to operate in a club ?

thanks in advance


Usually these lasers, have "failsafes" :-
designed not to fire into one place fro more than a few milliseconds,
emergency cut off,
Operator lock/key
block, to adjust to ensure no crowd scanning occurs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote imageoven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 11:39am
Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 1:15pm
Nice one- I'll get reading !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2019 at 3:06pm
I've also found this which in effect says "no2 you don't need a license. But of course you could blind someone !!!

http://www.lasershowsafety.org/faq.htm

A few links to training courses but not sure how pricy that would be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2019 at 5:31pm
Beware of reading US websites if you're in the UK, lots of different issues for them over there with the CDRH and the variance system.

As Imageoven linked to, what used to be HSG95 got picked up for oversight by Plasa a few years back and brought up to date.
Most of what need to know is in there, but you'll need some understanding and interpretation.
If you're green to most of this, the best thing would be to speak to James Stewart at LVR Ltd, who basically trains most of the UK laserists, and works on larger events as a safety advisor.
It works out about £300 for the day training with certification (or did when I did it)
Obviously its a claimable expense if you're a company.
James is also happy to discuss specific issues - I've contacted him about dealing with particular council officers in some cities, and all sorts of other things. Good guy, been in the business a long time.
https://www.lvroptical.com/lasertraining.html

And in response to your original question...
No, you don't need a license (no such thing here), although you may be asked to prove competence, calculations if you want to crowd scan, basic H&S stuff, RAMS, risk assessment, etc
Venues themselves have venue licenses, and may have special requirements for use of pyro, lasers and other special effects which requires paperwork to be submitted by the venue to licensing authority 28 days in advance of the event. They'll ask you to supply the required documentation, but these are not many I've found (Lambeth was always one where we had to)

Edited by norty303 - 18 February 2019 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IainB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2019 at 11:19am
Originally posted by norty303 norty303 wrote:

st of this, the best thing would be to speak to James Stewart at LVR Ltd, who basically trains most of the UK laserists, and works on larger events as a safety advisor.
It works out about £300 for the day training with certification (or did when I did it)
Obviously its a claimable expense if you're a company.
James is also happy to discuss specific issues - I've contacted him about dealing with particular council officers in some cities, and all sorts of other things. Good guy, been in the business a long time.
https://www.lvroptical.com/lasertraining.html

Perfect timing, next course is on Monday in Watford, Ive booked myself in Thumbs Up price has slightly gone up £336 including the exam. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2019 at 12:10am
Don't forget public liability insurance... its a must, make sure it actually covers what you do.
blah blah blah blah blah......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2019 at 11:26am
thanks Norty for the Sage advice ! I will get onto one of these courses once we are set up adding lasers to our show. Its good to know you need to check with a venue/council, and that you need to do calcs. I have seen some apps that offer such calcs, but I am sure I will be asking about all of that in due course..

Also a great point about public liability insurance, which if we do form a company in due course, we'd have to get.

Thanks again for all the useful responses ! Hope I can find out a bit more and help other noobs !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2019 at 11:37am
..even if you're not a company get insurance! For your own sake!!!
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote monkeypuzzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2019 at 8:33pm
Yep, you as the person putting in the equipment are the person responsible. Anyone working in a public space, suppling, installing, operating any electrical items needs it official company or not. You will be the one that is sued if someone gets retinal damage from the laser. If they sue the venue, the venue would then look to take you to court.

Sorry that sounds mega negative but its really important that you get PLI. There are many ways, joining one of the large DJ organisations (dave double decks type) can cost very little, otherwise Doodsons or others...
blah blah blah blah blah......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IainB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2019 at 9:33pm
100% recommend the above course to anyone thinking about getting involved in lasers. Saying that, I now need to redesign my plans for mine in the marquee (height isn't a problem, distance from laser to audience is)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2019 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Radius Radius wrote:

thanks Norty for the Sage advice ! I will get onto one of these courses once we are set up adding lasers to our show. Its good to know you need to check with a venue/council, and that you need to do calcs. I have seen some apps that offer such calcs, but I am sure I will be asking about all of that in due course..


It is not enough jut to have an app to do calcs, you'll need some way to measure power too.
It is not an easy or straightforward path where I can just say 'buy X, do Y'
This is why I recommend the course, James covers different methods of exposure assessment, and demos use of things like fast photodiodes, and the effect of having a (decent) scanfail in the system can make to exposure levels and powers.

As Monkeypuzzle says, if you're doing any sort of work (you mentioned adding lasers to your show, which implies you're already doing some other form of production) then you need PLI.
I'm only a sole trader/freelancer but I have PLI. Most of the venues I do won't allow me to work without it - even if they did I would still have it.
I've already had one very expensive accident with a laser hit to a big LCD projector....
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