derivatives of the 1850 design

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   I've built a few 1850 cabs following the measurements as given in the plan section.
 However, i'm a stickler for having things looking different so i decided to build another one to my design.

 The overall dimensions are pretty much the same ( 10mm thinner and 15mm shorter though ) and the throat and mouth are pretty much the same, inside however i've changed the angles slightly.

 I've just run a test and i'm happy with it so far although i need to fix the brace correctly in the mouth opening, it does require running from 60hz which is fine as i have some TCB to build next to handle low down shizzle.

 My question is a general one though, is this still a 1850 or is it my own design?  

 I genuinely took the idea from building 1850's but adapted it to my own design, but it still retains some of the original...

thoughts please 

Edited by Badger74 - 21 February 2015 at 9:11am

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Badger74 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 10 January 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badger74 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: derivatives of the 1850 design Posted: 20 February 2015 at 6:33pm
	I've built a few 1850 cabs following the measurements as given in the plan section. However, i'm a stickler for having things looking different so i decided to build another one to my design. The overall dimensions are pretty much the same ( 10mm thinner and 15mm shorter though ) and the throat and mouth are pretty much the same, inside however i've changed the angles slightly. I've just run a test and i'm happy with it so far although i need to fix the brace correctly in the mouth opening, it does require running from 60hz which is fine as i have some TCB to build next to handle low down shizzle. My question is a general one though, is this still a 1850 or is it my own design? I genuinely took the idea from building 1850's but adapted it to my own design, but it still retains some of the original... thoughts please Edited by Badger74 - 21 February 2015 at 9:11am

Hemisphere Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 21 April 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2272	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hemisphere Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 3:19am
	Depends what you mean by 'is it yours' - if you try and sell it as a commercial cabinet it's questionable, really depends how similar - if not, why does it matter?

Badger74 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 10 January 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badger74 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 7:17am
	I guess i'm just honest, i'll give credit where credit is due. I wouldn't have built this from scratch just yet as i'm still learning but i would like to brand this ( when asked what it is ) as my own design & build with a nod to the original designer. As for commercial gain, none planned unless peeps want me to build some for them.

bitSmasher Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 June 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2289	Post Options Post Reply Quote bitSmasher Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 11:13am
	IMO basic dimension adjustments don't count as new/unique If you were to calculate a horn from scratch and "borrow" the fold pattern appropriately then it'd be your own

djeddie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 26 April 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 4124	Post Options Post Reply Quote djeddie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 2:06pm
	Just throwing my 2p into the mix... just take a look at the 1850 plan and then look at the Eminence plan. There are only so many ways you can fold a horn, there's bound to be similarities.
	Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards. E=mc² ±3dB

Hemisphere Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 21 April 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2272	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hemisphere Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 2:58pm
	Can you post the layout so we can look at it? You say it only operates from 60Hz and up so that to me suggests it must be quite a bit more different than you're suggesting, it also suggests you haven't made a very efficient use of space.. If you're using dedicated sub boxes you can get away with a much smaller box.

Badger74 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 10 January 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badger74 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 4:22pm
	I dont have any plans, i began with the internal measurements pretty much the same as the original design, from there i re adjusted some angles to fit what i had in mind. Keeping the throat the same, the baffle in the same place and angle, the throat is pretty much the same but with a curved exit point. As for the 60hz comment, the drivers work best from 54hz upwards ( PD 1850MK2 ) and i'm not looking for sub sound, keeping them above 60hz for me works. However this is the first, i have 3 more to build of this design, when they are built i will work on the best parameters i wish to run the lot on. Here's a few pics as i keep describing it, bracing still to be fitted; Edited by Badger74 - 21 February 2015 at 4:30pm

b grade Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 05 October 2012 Location: Portland OR USA Status: Offline Points: 1337	Post Options Post Reply Quote b grade Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 February 2015 at 6:43pm
	If there are any parts of the exact dimension or angle people would call you on it if you tried to claim it as your own. Just call it a 1850 remix. I would feel a little sheisty trying to pretend I did not borrow heavily from a design so I would just own up to it from the gate rather than wait to get called on it. I like the way you made negative space in the external box shape with all the dead space. I wonder though about using the front reflector up top as the external panel. The last vertical panel (Omitted in your version) in the front is supposed to be a part of the mouth, where I think the sever angle back will drop the sound and act as a slightly smaller mouth and even a slightly shorter overall path. I put handles on mine on the front panel, and I regret it because I fell like I am losing something by not having the whole panel.

Badger74 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 10 January 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 142	Post Options Post Reply Quote Badger74 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 February 2015 at 9:47am
	I thought about the removal of the final panel affecting the overall idea of the horn shape and looking at it more and more, i dont think it will make any difference. If the extention of that last little bit was affecting it, i would've expected it all the way around the mouth though, ie an extention on the bottom vertical and both sides...but maybe i'm looking at it incorrectly? I believe it was part of the overall design to bring it all together..the mouth flares upto that point, perhaps Mr Rog thought it looked good to keep that little bit recessed...i honestly done know. I have run some hearing tests over the weekend and it sounds no different to a standard 1850. I also designed and built a brace design which i think works and so far, again, has made the sound no different to a standard 1850. My understanding ( being a carpenter/joiner for some time ) is that a force acting upon a tube in a vertical manner, will squash the tube in the horizontals, abit like standing on a ball. If the horizontal sides of the tube are braced, then it provides a solid brace.... thoughts on this brace;

Shortrope Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 July 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1232	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shortrope Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 February 2015 at 9:52am
	Nice brace!
	My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!!

bitSmasher Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 June 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2289	Post Options Post Reply Quote bitSmasher Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 February 2015 at 9:01pm
	Would that cause a weird resonance?

djeddie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 26 April 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 4124	Post Options Post Reply Quote djeddie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 February 2015 at 9:46pm
	So apart from the side panels being curved and the panel on the top of the front not being there, exactly how different are they to the original? Edited by djeddie - 23 February 2015 at 9:48pm
	Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards. E=mc² ±3dB