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derivatives of the 1850 design

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Badger74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2015 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:


So apart from the side panels being curved and the panel on the top of the front not being there, exactly how different are they to the original?

 Hang on...let me type it all out again Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2015 at 10:31pm
No plans for commercial gain changed to '£300 each 10 day turnaround' quite quickly?

Rog put terms on the resale of his designs so this looks more than a bit questionable. If the performance is the same, throat and mouth is the same, you can't have tweaked much else, besides cutting away the empty spaces, and adding a fancy brace.

It's almost as if you've changed every part that can possibly be changed without actually changing anything which does kind of smell like a rip-off. At least you came and asked people's opinions on this, which says a lot really, but as a commercial endeavour looks like a no-go imo, at least if you care to build a reputation of any kind.


Edited by Hemisphere - 23 February 2015 at 10:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2015 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

No plans for commercial gain changed to '£300 each 10 day turnaround' quite quickly?


How on earth is that a commercial gain? I'm a self employed carpenter/joiner. I'm offering a very cheap service. Materials for this come to £220. £80 for my time to build something which will also have to include wear & tear on my own tools AND 20% of that goes to the taxman. I've tweaked a design ( which is free to build I might add) and i'm willing to give my skills so that others can appreciate it, with a little flair of my own. 

Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

Rog put terms on the resale of his designs so this looks more than a bit questionable. If the performance is the same, throat and mouth is the same, you can't have tweaked much else, besides cutting away the empty spaces, and adding a fancy brace.


If I remember correctly, it was stated if you wanted to use these for commercial gain then please contact Rog ( although i have no commercial gain in building these for other people ).
 I haven't read anywhere that it's based on charging someone to build them...perhaps we should be looking into the many many companies that sell pre cut flat packs of this design? 


Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:


It's almost as if you've changed every part that can possibly be changed without actually changing anything which does kind of smell like a rip-off. At least you came and asked people's opinions on this, which says a lot really, but as a commercial endeavour looks like a no-go imo, at least if you care to build a reputation of any kind.


A rip off? I couldn't have been any more honest about the whole thing, every answer I have given to any question I have stated it is a 1850 with a few changes that I found pleasing. The original question was at what point does an original idea cross into someone else's idea...

It was never a commercial endeavour, I never stated it was.

 You have the wrong idea if you think i'm in this to cash in on someones else's hard work. 

 Well founded critisism is welcome and opinions, again, are welcome. 

Ignorance is not.

 







Edited by Badger74 - 24 February 2015 at 5:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2015 at 11:48pm
Dont like the shape of the cab neither the brace too imho

look like an old arcade machine...

if thats your thing go for it man..
Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AM55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 12:24am
I think nowadays Rog has got bigger fish to fry than collecting royalties from 1850 builders. There must be people knocking them out all over the place. Just call it an 1850 and hope the design gives you a usp. I wouldn't worry to much about it being a "rip off" as some may consider it.

I'm not sure about that brace either, I would have done one to match the edge of the cab.


Edited by AM55 - 24 February 2015 at 12:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 6:02am
Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

Dont like the shape of the cab neither the brace too imho

look like an old arcade machine...

if thats your thing go for it man..

 Arcade machine? 

Interesting observation Wink

 The brace is a marmite scenario for sure Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 6:04am
Originally posted by AM55 AM55 wrote:

I think nowadays Rog has got bigger fish to fry than collecting royalties from 1850 builders. There must be people knocking them out all over the place. Just call it an 1850 and hope the design gives you a usp. I wouldn't worry to much about it being a "rip off" as some may consider it.

I'm not sure about that brace either, I would have done one to match the edge of the cab.

I came up with the name 1850 Remix after   b grade's post on here, says it all really Big smile


 Again the brace is not everyones cup of tea and may prove useless in it's current state at high volumes, testing it over the weekend..


Edited by Badger74 - 24 February 2015 at 6:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AM55 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 8:14am
Does it take any more time to manufacture than the traditional bracing style?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 11:38am
Originally posted by AM55 AM55 wrote:

Does it take any more time to manufacture than the traditional bracing style?

The brace shown or the whole cab?  

The whole cab takes a little longer even though there is technically less materials, but it's swings n roundabouts really...the 1850 is a simple design to build, as soon as you add curves to the face of panels you begin to up the time producing the finished article.

 I've made a few router jigs for the rebated side panels and their curves, also for handles etc.

 As for the brace, it initially took a while to make it as i had the idea and then spent time getting that into a workable unit.  

 A lot of clamping, glueing, sanding and painting really, however it's an evolving idea. If it proves stable at high volumes and does the job intended then i've thought of either having the tube made of clear acyrilic and the vertical and horizontal braces the same colour as the cab ( good ol' black atm ;) ) to give effect of nothing being there or using a 2mm steel tube instead...

 I did the initial build with standard braces following the contours like you pointed out, a pic 



my thoughts here were to either leave as is or to have the whole front of the cab grilled ( not BBQ style! )

 From the base of the 2 vertical braces the grill would travel up the front of the cab to the last ommited panel and be curved over to finish flush with the top. This would allow a clean finish to the whole front of the cab, it would obviously have to be secured at the mouth opening Wink

 Another option is to have it partially grilled in the mouth opening, ie just where the bracing is.

I asked on here about using grills and the effect on the cab and it does seem very limited if using the correct sized grill.

 It's always good to chuck ideas out there and get a response from those that have knowledge. I got skills to build stuff, but i'm still learning the basics of what i do and it's effect on the overall finished product in it's initial design, so i'm gonna make a few cock ups for sure! LOLLOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Badger74 Badger74 wrote:

Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

No plans for commercial gain changed to '£300 each 10 day turnaround' quite quickly?


How on earth is that a commercial gain? I'm a self employed carpenter/joiner. I'm offering a very cheap service. Materials for this come to £220. £80 for my time to build something which will also have to include wear & tear on my own tools AND 20% of that goes to the taxman. I've tweaked a design ( which is free to build I might add) and i'm willing to give my skills so that others can appreciate it, with a little flair of my own. 

Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:

Rog put terms on the resale of his designs so this looks more than a bit questionable. If the performance is the same, throat and mouth is the same, you can't have tweaked much else, besides cutting away the empty spaces, and adding a fancy brace.


If I remember correctly, it was stated if you wanted to use these for commercial gain then please contact Rog ( although i have no commercial gain in building these for other people ).
 I haven't read anywhere that it's based on charging someone to build them...perhaps we should be looking into the many many companies that sell pre cut flat packs of this design? 


Originally posted by Hemisphere Hemisphere wrote:


It's almost as if you've changed every part that can possibly be changed without actually changing anything which does kind of smell like a rip-off. At least you came and asked people's opinions on this, which says a lot really, but as a commercial endeavour looks like a no-go imo, at least if you care to build a reputation of any kind.


A rip off? I couldn't have been any more honest about the whole thing, every answer I have given to any question I have stated it is a 1850 with a few changes that I found pleasing. The original question was at what point does an original idea cross into someone else's idea...

It was never a commercial endeavour, I never stated it was.

 You have the wrong idea if you think i'm in this to cash in on someones else's hard work. 

 Well founded critisism is welcome and opinions, again, are welcome. 

Ignorance is not.

 





Apologies Badger - clearly I was talking bollocks :) all comments gladly withdrawn. Hope you can see how I came to that view though as it definitely appeared like you were tip-toeing around the idea that you 'may' have been ripping off the design but wanted to be sure that you weren't.

Edited by Hemisphere - 24 February 2015 at 1:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badger74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2015 at 10:20pm
Hemisphere, i've re read my entire thread and in the first post i did state that;

Quote  My question is a general one though, is this still a 1850 or is it my own design?  

 I genuinely took the idea from building 1850's but adapted it to my own design, but it still retains some of the original...

 So yes, i do honestly believe that you can have a belief that i was testing the waters to passing something off as my own, and i was to a certain extent thinking of whether this is mine or not, but i've remained honest about it all from thr word go.

 What got my back up was the way in which djeddie posted a screenshot of the facebook thread for no reason other than to entice a reaction, as if i was hiding something and you yourself were quick enough to jump to a conclusion based on that facebook thread without, i felt, giving me some credit for my honesty which has been at the forefront and also taking time to actually read the facebook thread.

 Honesty can be a front for dishonesty and it's hard to come across as clean without gaining suspicion at times, new folk come and go here every day, some stay, some go, some scheme, some are geniune and some not.  

 I would like to believe i'm a decent guy and if i'm wrong then i'm happy to admit it and i do feel that my response you post was abit on the aggressive front and for that, please accept my apologies as i'm not here to piss off the locals or gain a reputation for being hot headed or arrogant.

Peace

 

 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2015 at 12:26am
It's just my mostly uneducated opinion after all though - others may feel differently. I think the wording used on the plans was 'if you wish to make a living from these plans contact me for a licensing deal' - clearly you're not going to 'make a living' selling a few variations of one design and there are others definitely taking the piss selling carbon copy flat packs etc.

An email is provided to contact though - no idea if it's still active, if it were me I'd try and get in contact with the designer and ask just to be absolutely sure. Out of respect to the guy for providing the plans free in the first place if nothing more.

To use a more recent example, Saturnus the designer of the 'Boominator' system as far as I know never placed any explicit terms on the commercial use of his plans, and I think some people do sell flat packs or finished builds of that design. I'd still ask him if I was thinking of making or selling any version of that design though, even on a very low margin as an individual builder, simply because I'm not sure.

Perhaps the only reason it feels like a different matter is that Saturnus is a regular poster and contributor still on the forum, it just feels much more then like the right thing to do to ask, as he's around and available. If Rog was around it would be the right thing to ask, or most likely you'd hear an opinion in this thread whether you sought it or not.
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