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Query for Reconing Techs |
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AJ113
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Joined: 11 March 2016 Location: Hull UK Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Topic: Query for Reconing TechsPosted: 23 February 2025 at 9:32am |
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In your experience, when drivers are fried, which is the most common cause: amps clipping or thermal overload/excessive excursion?
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VECTORDJ
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Joined: 11 June 2006 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 585 |
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Posted: 23 February 2025 at 1:15pm |
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GROSS OVERPOWING.....The REAL Power Handling of a Woofer is Pink Noise for an extended Time (RMS).....This Number is many Times too low for the Sales Depart so They Rate it at Peak for 1/10000 of a Second...You will get more Sound by adding more Woofers than by playing a Woofer many Times RMS....1/10000 of a Second is a very short Song....Send Your Blown Woofers to VECTORSONICS for Recone Work...
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AJ113
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Posted: 23 February 2025 at 4:07pm |
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OK thank you. My subs are rated 600w (8R) and the power amps are (allegedly) 700w per channel. They work quite well together but the amps peak too much and I am concerned about possible sine wave damage. (I don't think they are outputting 700w, even at peak) I'm wondering if I will get better results, and if it will be better for the equipment to run in bridge mode coupling two subs in parallel per amp. The alleged output bridged is 2900w into 4R, obviously too high at 1450w per cab, but I'm thinking if I keep the input level sensible, this mode of operation might be better for both amps and drivers. Assuming no more than 1200w per cab as a result of optimistic marketing and keeping the input level low, as far as I know that is about right for amp-power-to-driver ratio.
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Conanski
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Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2757 |
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Posted: 23 February 2025 at 10:30pm |
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If you're frying drivers with a 700w amp then you're going to do it even faster with twice as much power behind them.
Bridging into 4ohms is harder on an amp. Lowering level controls does nothing to limit output power. What processing do you have to protect the speakers? If the answer to that is nothing that is your problem.
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AJ113
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Posted: 23 February 2025 at 10:38pm |
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I'm not frying drivers; I'm looking to optimise my operation. "Lowering level controls does nothing to limit output power." If the input is reduced, isn't the output also reduced? "What processing do you have to protect the speakers? If the answer to that is nothing that is your problem." It's crossed over at the appropriate frequency; I also high pass the masters (belt and braces), plus the amps have limiters. |
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Conanski
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Posted: 24 February 2025 at 2:29am |
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jacethebase
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Joined: 23 September 2009 Location: Somerset Status: Offline Points: 5837 |
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Posted: 24 February 2025 at 10:52am |
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Funktion One have a very simple Limiter Calculator on their website that may help you
https://funktion-one.com/calculators/
Also this book was a life send to me when I was starting out trying to figure out what is what. Its probably fairly out dated now with regards to modern DSP etc but covers the basics. |
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www.wedding-production.co.uk
www.stage2sound.com |
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Line Array
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Joined: 19 March 2022 Location: New Jersey, USA Status: Offline Points: 204 |
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Posted: 25 March 2025 at 1:13pm |
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not a reconing tech, but the way clipping kills speakers is it sends distortion into the tweeters killing them. if you aren't using passive tops clipping isn't that big a deal.
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RoadRunnersDust
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Joined: 03 December 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 617 |
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Posted: 16 April 2025 at 5:11am |
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You are describing "Program" there. RMS would be a continuous signal such as a sine wave. |
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AJ113
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Posted: 16 April 2025 at 7:15am |
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Isn't pink noise a continuous signal?
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RoadRunnersDust
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Posted: 16 April 2025 at 8:14am |
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No, and once you start getting into it it becomes harder to explain because the old style power ratings were based on essentially arbitrary figures and not very accurately named to boot!
Essentially the old term "RMS" means "low crest factor signal" where the peak to RMS amplitude ratio is incredibly small. It's also been intended to mean things like "continuous power" or "average power". It never had a unified standard for how it was measured or what it meant but if you take it to mean "you can feed the speaker a sine wave of this power and it will be safe" then you're usually not far wrong with it. Meanwhile pink noise has a crest factor of 4 meaning that the peak amplitude of the signal is +12dB greater than the RMS (Root Mean Square) amplitude of the signal. This gives you a signal that behaves more like music in terms of it's amplitude whilst the "pink" part of it means that the energy is equally distributed per octave (meaning 20-40Hz has the same amount of energy in pink noise as the 200-400Hz band does). This also better represents a music signal compared to a sine wave which has *all* of it's energy at one frequency. There's a reason all the reputable manufacturers have moved over to the AES standard for loudspeaker power rating
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AJ113
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Posted: 16 April 2025 at 8:27am |
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Well I have to say I'm none the wiser in terms real-world application. On their website, Crown Amps specifically advise amps that are rated up to 2.5 times(!) the speaker rating. Surely they must know a thing or two about amps and speakers?
I've gone ahead and bought a couple of QSC 1850HD which will deliver a reliable 1850 watts per side in bridge mode. I am assuming this will give me a bit of headroom on my 1200-watt pairs and allow me to operate at optimum level, especially since QSC's rating is based on a short burst at 1kHz, so probably not a true 1800 watts. If I fry the drivers, well, I've learned the hard way. Edit: typos Edited by AJ113 - 16 April 2025 at 8:32am |
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