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Phase Plugs |
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Augusts
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Topic: Phase PlugsPosted: 14 December 2023 at 7:20pm |
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Plain and simple, is there a paper I could read to understand them better? Alot of companies use them, My goal ir good horizontal dispersion up tp 3-4kHz from an 8" or 10". What is out there open ,I have read.
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teeth
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Joined: 05 July 2021 Status: Offline Points: 762 |
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Posted: 14 December 2023 at 9:04pm |
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fudge22
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Posted: 14 December 2023 at 11:21pm |
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Most of the papers tend to concern compression driver phase
plug design, but here are a few. An Investigation of the Air Chamber of Horn Type
Loudspeakers by Bob H. Smith. Phase Plug Modelling and Analysis: Radial vs. circumferential
Types by Clifford A. Henricksen. There are a number of papers by M. Dodd and J. Oclee-Brown
including. Loudspeaker Compression-Driver Phase-Plug Design. New Methodology for the Acoustic Design of Compression
Driver Phase Plugs with Concentric Annular Channels. Is there any reason why you need to use a 10” drive unit up
to 4KHz? It is probably not the best solution. Plus the modern trend is for horn
loaded compression drivers to be used to increasingly low frequencies. |
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Augusts
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Posted: 15 December 2023 at 6:34am |
I would like a cone driver to play 2kHz because in my experience a CD is really harsh sounding around this frequency. Thank you for the books!
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fudge22
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Posted: 15 December 2023 at 8:34pm |
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JBL used to do a device called CMCD, which stood for cone
mid-range compression driver. It might be worth searching for the term as JBL
were pretty good at releasing tech documents. Which cone based systems are you comparing with which
compression driver based systems, that leads you to conclude that compression
drivers are harsh at 2KHz? With a well designed system they shouldn’t be. Getting a 10” horn loaded drive unit to have a smooth
unprocessed response above 1KHz is tricky. If the point of the exercise is a
reduced output at 2KHz they should fit the bill. All loudspeaker drive units have an upper roll off point,
sometimes referred to as the mass break point (because the upper limit is
mainly due to the coil/cone mass). Above that frequency the power available
efficiency starts to drop off. The on-axis sensitivity can remain flat above that point,
because the directivity increases, so the power is radiated into a smaller
volume. A 10” drive unit will have a directivity index of about 12dB at 1.5KHz.
That is, the sound level will be 12dB higher on axis than if the acoustic power
was radiated omni-directionally. If the on-axis SPL is still flat at that
frequency it is actually putting out less than 0.1 of the power compared to
lower frequencies. If you manage to make a horn with constant directivity, you
will lose the extended response, which comes from increasing directivity, and
it will require additional eq to regain the flat response. This is why high
frequency boost is needed on compression drivers fitted to constant directivity
horns, because they have a falling power response. With 1” compression drivers the hf roll off happens at
around 4KHz, with 2” compression drivers it is about 2.5KHz. There is a lot
more variation in cone design, but a 10” driver could start to roll off well
below 1KHz. There maybe outliers that perform differently, but chances are such
a device will have been designed for a specific purpose. With a horn, there is also a volume of air between the
diaphragm and horn throat. This air has a compliance which at low frequencies
behaves like an incompressible fluid, so all the air displaced by the diaphragm
passes into the throat of the horn. At high frequencies the mechanical
reactance of this air space becomes sufficiently low (i.e., the air becomes
compressible) so that all the air displaced by the diaphragm does not pass into
the throat of the horn. As the compliance tends to zero the roll off tends to
6dB/octave (determined by mass alone). By careful choice of compliance, the
space can be caused to resonate with mmd (moving mass) which extends the
response upwards, but the roll off then tends to 12dB/octave. A final nail in the coffin, is that at higher frequencies
the cone doesn’t move as a single, solid diaphragm. Parts of the cone can be
moving forwards at the same time as other parts are moving backwards. This does
not help maintain a smooth response. However, to quote Beranek: It has been remarked that if one selects his own components,
builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design,
then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's
loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to
play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion. |
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Augusts
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Posted: 15 December 2023 at 9:19pm |
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I read your post being maximally intrigued, this was spot on. Found the JBL tech notes. I definetely have a lot of illusions, talking is the best way to dissolve them. It was probably a cd crossed too low and and it was a BMS 6” midrange that I pushed upwards and liked they way it sounded on two kHz. My goal is to not to have to cut the 2kHz region or attenuate but to have maximum definition with minimum distortion. I build my own stuff and compare my previous work with the next and also with what others are building but not everyone shares their secrets, so in a way, I have to reinvent the bicycle. Thus im starting to have my signature sound like you said. But 2kHz is a problem for me, I nees to fix it. I would love to talk to you in person.
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VECTORDJ
Young Croc
Joined: 11 June 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 585 |
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Posted: 15 December 2023 at 11:37pm |
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The AES had/has a Book that details the first Turbo Sound Cabs....It has drawings of Their Plugs....The same Book also has Stories about Bose and Touring Sound in Africa.....Interesting Book.
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Augusts
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Posted: 16 December 2023 at 4:29am |
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Thank you, I like learning by doing, it will be very interesting to look along the Turbo plugs because we know how do they look and others have probably heard them, I have not, but have no doubt that they sound great, I have seen a lot of detailed pics of them though. As I understand the drivers are physically time aligned too?
Edited by Augusts - 16 December 2023 at 4:29am |
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Lucasdude
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Posted: 16 December 2023 at 9:56am |
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I had some Volt 10" drivers with metal dust caps mounted on their own large compression horns (about 2 feet wide) in the mid 90s. I had them crossed over @3.5k, and although I couldn't measure much back then they seems to be pretty even.
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fudge22
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Posted: 16 December 2023 at 9:38pm |
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Smaller drive units maintain a wider dispersion pattern
(lower directivity) up to a higher frequency, so with a flat on axis spl
response the power response is maintained up to a higher frequency. A 6” cone
will integrate much better with a 1” compression driver than will a 12” or 15”
cone. I have some small cabinets that use the BMS 8” coax. If I remember correctly it was JBL that started the trend
with aluminium dust caps. The two reasons I’ve heard for their use was to help
cool the voice coil and to improve the high frequencies. The latter is more
likely (unless there was a typo when someone put in the order for compression
driver diaphragms and the had a stack going spare). Depending on who you talk
to, the resultant boost in hf made the overall sound either better or worse. When you say that the 10” volts were mounted on a large
compression horn, how much smaller was the throat than the cone area? I used to
see a lot of midrange cabinets where the cone was just mounted at the back of a
flare. Apart from altering the directivity at lower frequencies the on-axis
response would be similar to the speaker mounted on a baffle. Also, at higher
frequencies, where the wavelength is small, compared to the flare, it is
possible that the flare has no effect on the sound at all. |
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Augusts
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Posted: 16 December 2023 at 10:29pm |
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I am soon going to make a horn for an 8" driver. I have it ready on akabak and waiting for the cnc guys to cut the negative from mdf. The sim shows promising response up to 4kHz at 30+30 degrees. It will probably be worse than the sim and I am ready to cross the cone over at 800Hz, but I want to see how is it in reality. I will post if something good comes out. maybe a phase plug is a good idea. I have designed the horn so that the entry is at the diameter that the cone is (without surround)
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Lucasdude
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Posted: 17 December 2023 at 10:33am |
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Fudge, from memory the horn had a dome a little bigger than the dust cap mounted just in front of it, with the venting between that and the flare. It was very close to the cap, as I remember I actually had to return them to volt because they touched when I crossed them over @250hz. Volt said that frequency should have been OK for the combo, so they altered the distance between the dust cap and dome. Not exactly very scientific, but they worked fine after that!
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