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csijo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 July 2024 at 8:19am
Saludos a todos los amigos del foro, estoy por fabricar un proyecto para un sistema de altavoces array pequeño, he conseguido 16 altavoces yamaha NX-E130 full rango, con un  rango de frecuencia entre 100 Hz a 25 kHz y 30 Watts RMS por cada pareja de controladores. 
Quiero fabricar un par de sistemas compuestos por 16 drivers cada uno y quisiera consultarles
¿Cuál sería la forma más eficiente de diseñar el sistema line array para obtener la mayor cantidad de decibeles posibles?

1. Haciendo un arreglo vertical de 8 líneas de drivers que cada uno lleva dos altavoces full rango de 2 pulgadas uno al lado del otro sin ningún problema. centímetro de separación entre los chasis de los controladores.

o

2. Haciendo un arreglo vertical de 16 altavoces de 2 pulgadas en línea que llevan al menos 1 cm de separación entre el chasis de cada driver ?

Me gustaría escuchar sus opiniones. Les dejo imágenes relacionadas al proyecto.
Por cierto estoy tratando de subir imagenes a este post y no he conseguido lograrlo.






Edited by csijo - 12 July 2024 at 3:21pm
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Translation:
Greetings to all the friends of the forum, I am about to build a project for a small array speaker system, I have obtained 16 Yamaha NX-E130 full range speakers, with a frequency range between 100 Hz to 25 kHz and 30 Watts RMS for each pair of drivers.
I want to manufacture a couple of systems composed of 16 drivers each and I would like to consult with you
What would be the most efficient way to design the line array system to obtain the highest number of decibels possible?

1. Making a vertical arrangement of 8 lines of drivers that each carry two 2-inch full-range speakers side by side without any problem. centimeter of separation between the controller chassis.

either

2. Making a vertical arrangement of 16 2-inch speakers in line that have at least 1 cm of separation between the chassis of each driver?

I would like to hear your opinions here I leave you images related to the project.
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This will be a line source speaker not a line array.. it won't be nearly large enough to produce line array behavior across most of the spectrum.

The design ideals with these speaker types are a single tall column of drivers with center to center distances as close as possible... which means drivers frames touching(no separation of drivers), this is important as it increases the range of frequencies over which the column produces a coherent wavefront. Even with this done the system will produce a lot of comb filtering above 7khz were sound wavelenths are less than the driver c-c spacing. 
And these small drivers won't do very well at low fequencies, you should expect to need additional support below 200-300hz. 
Lastly don't expect a lot of SPL, these will not really qualify as a PA speaker.. more of a loud home audio/studio speaker.
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Look at Bose MA12 for ideas....Just a bunch of Small Drivers...Soud fine for Church or small Karaoke Bar....Not for Hard Rock Bands.
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Quote This will be a line source speaker not a line array.. it won't be nearly large enough to produce line array behavior across most of the spectrum.

 

Which manufacturer’s marketing does this snippet of technical information come from? An array can be defined as an arrangement of similar objects, usually in rows and columns. As such a columns of loudspeakers, irrespective of size. can be defined as an array. If there is only a single column, line array seems appropriate.

As for the theory, Olson’s oft quoted book Acoustical Engineering refers to a straight-line source, which it says, may be made up of a large number of points of equal strength and phase on a line separated by equal and very small distances. If the number of sources n approach infinity and d, the distance between the sources, approaches zero in such a way that nd = l the limiting case is the line source. So, presumably line source is good. No mention of an array.

 

Quote The design ideals with these speaker types are a single tall column of drivers with center to center distances as close as possible... which means drivers frames touching(no separation of drivers), this is important as it increases the range of frequencies over which the column produces a coherent wavefront. Even with this done the system will produce a lot of comb filtering above 7khz were sound wavelenths are less than the driver c-c spacing.

 

The theory behind centre to centre spacing presumes that the sources are ideal points. That is, their size is insignificant to the wavelength. As such, no sound is radiated from the gap between the points. In practical loudspeakers, at frequencies where the spacing between elements becomes significant, each drive unit can not be considered a point source, and imparts directivity. You can’t ignore that the edge of the drive unit is also radiating sound, not just the centre. If the drive units are touching there is no clear centre to centre spacing.
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The first thing I thought of when I read the description of what you had was the old Bose 802. They were an 8 driver speaker, with 2 slightly angled baffles of 4 drivers for better coverage. I seem to remember the drivers being 1ohm wired in series for 8ohms total, but with a bit of series/parallel wiring you can choose a few different final figures.
   Love em or hate em, they sure were popular back in the day!
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google Keele's CBT array - constant beamwidth technology
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Originally posted by fudge22 fudge22 wrote:

As for the theory, Olson’s oft quoted book Acoustical Engineering refers to a straight-line source, which it says, may be made up of a large number of points of equal strength and phase on a line separated by equal and very small distances. If the number of sources n approach infinity and d, the distance between the sources, approaches zero in such a way that nd = l the limiting case is the line source. So, presumably line source is good. No mention of an array.

…

The theory behind centre to centre spacing presumes that the sources are ideal points. That is, their size is insignificant to the wavelength. As such, no sound is radiated from the gap between the points. In practical loudspeakers, at frequencies where the spacing between elements becomes significant, each drive unit can not be considered a point source, and imparts directivity. You can’t ignore that the edge of the drive unit is also radiating sound, not just the centre. If the drive units are touching there is no clear centre to centre spacing.


hi there, i am interested to learn from this, but could not think of how this would work out in building something.

afaik, as wavelength becomes smaller with higher frequencies, you would get a lot of lobes of phase cancellation between the speakers. for bass, those speakers are too small to give significant output. 

could you point out an example of speaker where this is put into practice?

best, Julius
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Quote hi there, i am interested to learn from this, but could not think of how this would work out in building something.

 

There are plenty of acoustic theory books, if that is what you want to learn, assuming that you have some knowledge of mathematics. If all you are interested in is building loudspeaker cabinets, fortunately any drive unit, in any box, will make a sound.

 

Quote afaik, as wavelength becomes smaller with higher frequencies, you would get a lot of lobes of phase cancellation between the speakers. for bass, those speakers are too small to give significant output.

 

Off axis cancellations are what gives a line array its directivity. Outside, discrete side lobes are not much of a problem if they are outside the required coverage area. Inside, reducing them improves intelligibility.

 

Whether the mentioned loudspeakers provide sufficient level, or low-end response, depends on the intended use. Not all situations demand levels that will cause early onset hearing loss.
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Points: 57 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote julius111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2024 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by fudge22 fudge22 wrote:

There are plenty of acoustic theory books, if that is what you want to learn, assuming that you have some knowledge of mathematics. If all you are interested in is building loudspeaker cabinets, fortunately any drive unit, in any box, will make a sound.

 

thanks, i recently finished bob mccarthys book, which was a bit more helpful in learning than your comment.


Originally posted by fudge22 fudge22 wrote:

Off axis cancellations are what gives a line array its directivity. Outside, discrete side lobes are not much of a problem if they are outside the required coverage area. Inside, reducing them improves intelligibility.

Whether the mentioned loudspeakers provide sufficient level, or low-end response, depends on the intended use. Not all situations demand levels that will cause early onset hearing loss.

 

again, thanks for answering, but i guess this means there is nothing for me to learn from you.
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csijo View Drop Down
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Points: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2024 at 7:55pm
La idea de este par de altavoces con 16 controladores yamaha cada uno es usarlos entre 200 hz y 18 khz. 
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