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Punisher driver! Catastrophic mistake? |
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Bitkrusha 
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Joined: 10 November 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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 Topic: Punisher driver! Catastrophic mistake?Posted: 17 March 2011 at 8:31pm |
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Can anyone help? I think I may have bought the wrong drivers.
Is there a difference in output between the Ciare 12.00 SW and the 12.00 SWDCNDW? Just taken the drivers out of my old Punishers and the magnets are massive compared to the new ones. It's been so long I'd forgotten what they look like!!! Same basket from what I can tell and they say 1000watts. Really? I'm worried I've just blown 340 quid!! |
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11 is one louder!!
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rich_gale
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Joined: 18 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2697 |
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Posted: 17 March 2011 at 8:34pm |
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uh oh! i got excited when i saw the new model number... looking like a neo version of the 12.00sw. however, very different on paper!
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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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Bitkrusha
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Posted: 17 March 2011 at 8:58pm |
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Yeah! I've got a horrible feeling I've fucked up. But they're still called Punishers which is what confused me!
I'll give em go anyway.....see what happens! |
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11 is one louder!!
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thoams87
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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 4:37am |
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Similar driver to the heavy version just with a neo magnet, the only place i ever see it for sale is at thomann and there is no sign of its existence on the ciare website either.
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toastyghost
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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 5:31am |
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Considering that almost every problem I ever had with Punishers was due to the heat in the rear chamber, I don't think sticking a neo magnet in that enclosed space is going to help...
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Bitkrusha
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Posted: 18 March 2011 at 7:12pm |
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Hmm! I find it amazing that they both have a similar performance and yet the neodymium one is less than half the weight.
I thought the neodymium speakers ran cooler than the ferite ones! That not the case then? Gonna use them anyway.......mainly cos I can't afford to buy another lot! Thanks for all your advice! |
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11 is one louder!!
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tomschute
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Joined: 15 May 2006 Location: Mid Wales Status: Offline Points: 1817 |
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Posted: 19 March 2011 at 4:33pm |
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It's not that they run cooler - it's that the threshold of magnet performance affected by heat is lower. They are much better these days so you can easily have as 'powerful' a driver for half the weight. So long as the cooling is sufficient. Which is also much improved in modern designs over early neo drivers.
Your problem with the pun is that it has such a small sealed rear chamber heat does tent to build up. How much this will effect the performance - you're about to find out! Personally I think many of the problems with blowing drivers in the pun is over powering them. Edited by tomschute - 19 March 2011 at 4:35pm |
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Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk
www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
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IanD
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Joined: 17 January 2009 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 400 |
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Posted: 19 March 2011 at 6:09pm |
According to Ciare when I spoke to them, the drivers are acoustically identical, but the neo driver is rated at 800W contnuous compared to 1000W for the ferrite -- the reason is mainly the much lower thermal mass of the magnet assembly (heats and cools more quickly), not demagnetisation. Where did you get 2 for £340? I'm about to get 2 from Thomann and they're £205 each... |
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toastyghost
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Posted: 19 March 2011 at 9:53pm |
Agreed, but that's because you just can't put 1000w into them on anything bass heavy without the drivers cooking. Timebomb from Rebel Bass in Lancaster runs his at about 700w max I think and has had no problems. Pretty sure he has aluminium access panels though. |
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Timebomb
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Posted: 19 March 2011 at 10:08pm |
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I kinda doubt the ali access panels are making that much difference, they get warm by the end of the night so there doing something... still need to build that VC temp circuit and find out for sure.
If you get a driver that is rated in free air, or in a large ported box, and put it into a small sealed box where the heat cant escape you are going to reduce thermal power handleing. Ive been running them on about 700W and they sit on the limiter for long periods some times but ive not had any burnt out, they can take more mechanically and its a shame not to use it but without knowing how hot there getting i dont want to pus it. That blown one we got off your mate toasty was burnt up at eather end of the the coil, so neather end was getting cooling from the top plate, half the overhang wasent being used. |
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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IanD
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Posted: 20 March 2011 at 11:53am |
One of the hazards of running drivers which rely on cone movement to pump lots of air in an enclosure that reduces cone travel (like a horn) and is small and enclosed (like the Punisher). I cooked a McCauley 6174 exactly the same way (burned both ends) driving it with repetitive 25Hz bass in a reflex tuned to 25Hz. All the driver power ratings are tested driven by pink noise in a (relatively) large sealed or vented box, usually 50-100l depending on the driver. In this case the cone moves a lot and pumps loads of cooling air past the coil, hence all the work on coil and spider venting systems. |
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Bitkrusha
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Joined: 10 November 2010 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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Posted: 20 March 2011 at 12:13pm |
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Wow! It never ceases to amaze me how little I know until i put a post up on here. The upside is, I know considerably more than I ever knew.........if that makes sense.
Ian, re the Punishers for £340.00. I don't know why but while I was putting together an order with Thomann the 12.00's were at £205.00, I went and made a coffee, when I came back the price had dropped to £163.00. Needless to say, I jumped on them. The next day they were back up to £205.00. I don't know if it was an input error or something, either way they honoured it! I've had nothing but good experiences with Thomann. Great prices and bloody fast delivery. Due to the fact I've already got the two 12.00SW's I might sell the 12.00SWDCNDW's (brand new, still in box) and buy two more 12.00SW's. If anyone's interested? |
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Bitkrusha wrote: