Beyma 12LX60 in Punisher

Anyone tried this? Sims slightly better than the Ciare in terms of being more sensitive, flatter freq response and group delay, drops lower with the same input. Downside is higher displacement for the same input power and lower xmax, meaning a possible 3db maximum power disadvantage.

Cones seem to be built very differently when I've got the speakers sitting next to each other, but the cooling on the Beyma does seem pretty good, so it's hard to know how much this would affect power compression and long term reliability.

I'll give this a try when my punishers arrive and post up some results...

darkmatter wrote: Anyone tried this? Sims slightly better than the Ciare in terms of being more sensitive, flatter freq response and group delay, drops lower with the same input. Downside is higher displacement for the same input power and lower xmax, meaning a possible 3db maximum power disadvantage. Cones seem to be built very differently when I've got the speakers sitting next to each other, but the cooling on the Beyma does seem pretty good, so it's hard to know how much this would affect power compression and long term reliability. I'll give this a try when my punishers arrive and post up some results...

I tested the 12LX60, 12P1000Nd and the JBL 2206 in a Punishers a while back. I used 8 Punishers and compared 4 by 4 each test with a variety of music.
The sensitivity advantage is very noticeable compared to the Ciare 12.00SW. You get about 4-5dB more output from the Beyma's and the JBL's from about 50 Hz and up. Below that the Ciare comes on par with the other three and at about 40 Hz, the Ciare has a slight advantage, but that comes at the expense of using up the X-max of the Ciare and you need A LOT of power in that region. The horn is not long enough to "load" the speaker from about 45-50Hz and down, you are running on the verge of being horn unloaded. If your intention is to use only Punishers and nothing below like reflex subs, longer horns or bandpass subs, than you're better off using the 12.00SW. You'll need more powerfull amps to get the job done and a steep HP filtering at about 45Hz to keep them from burning up and bottoming out.
If you intend to use extra subs to cover the lowest octave, than you're far better with 12LX60, 12P1000 or the 2206 and an HP filter at something between 50-55Hz. If used that way, the Punishers are practically unbeatable in terms of size-power-SPL. Another plus for the Beyma 12LX60 is that it sounds nice and smooth way up in the hundred Hz's, something the Ciare won't do due to it's high'ish Le and a thick, heavy cone. The practical upper limit with the Ciare is about 100-110Hz, above they sound horrible. 12P1000 also runs pretty high with good sound, but less than the 12LX60. The weight of the neo speaker might be a plus. The JBL 2206 is almost the same as the 12LX60 in sound, different types of music revealed very little differences between the two or the three if you take the 12P1000 also to compare.
I think it boils down to what your intended use will be and/or the style of music you want to use it for. For pure DJ work and dance, trance style music, I would go for Ciare speakers. But if the whole system is intended for live work and must be all-round useable, than I would choose 12LX60 speakers and real (lowest octave) subs with it. The 100Hz+ capability can also be very usefull, depending on what type of mid-top cabinets you have to work with them.
 



Edited by Peter Jan - 27 January 2009 at 2:17pm

incredibly useful info, thanks!

massisoda wrote: in other words,Peter Jan you want to say: if you use ONLY the punisher alone make it with the Ciare sw12 else if you use a sub and punisher make it with Beyma 12LX60 correct?

That's correct !
In case of a setup with subs, the choice is not only Beyma 12LX60.
I see you are from Italy, so RCF or 18Sound speakers may be easy to get for you.
I think like RCF 12N401 or 18Sound 12LW1400 as possible alternatives.
Look for high BL factor around 20 or more and an X-max of at least 5mm, combined with a rather low Qts between 0,15 and 0,25.
 





Edited by Peter Jan - 05 February 2009 at 1:01pm

Yeah Peter what do you think about 

12TBX100

http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000046

?


No problem to find B&C,Rcf or 18sound speaker and probably no problem also for found Beyma speakers.

But the problem is:

in Italy is impossible to buy Ciare 12.00SW,Ciare don't sell it in Italy!!
I talk with a Ciare manager and he tell me that probably Ciare 12.00SW will be commercialised in Italy in a few months.

And for sure I want to make some Punisher (for work approx.50-120hz) and subs for lowest octave...



Edited by massisoda - 05 February 2009 at 4:25pm

massisoda

look for Ciare PW331 & ciare PW332 as a direct replacement for 12.00SW

it has "only" 700W RMS