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Infra bass amplifier on budget
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2023 at 4:28am
Originally posted by zilinux zilinux wrote:

I do already have an UMIK-1 :)
Also is true that measurements will be on 20Hz-20kHz region but let's not to look what is happening on overall scale of things when measuring and concentrate just in 15-30Hz region. Will the bass differs even in slightest proportion from A and B amplifiers in 15-30Hz region?

If not, then perhaps all the existing amplifiers sounding the same and only difference between them is wattage? :)

A lot of modern Class D Amplifiers offer lower THD than older amplifiers. A large amount of Total Harmonic Distortion can give the user the perception that the Bass sounds “Heavier” when in fact, it is the high degree of THD coming into play. Such things can be measured using Sinusoidal Waves through the amplifier. I've conducted such tests years ago using hardware signal processors.



Loudspeakers that offer a greater amount of THD are favored more by many than loudspeakers that sounds accurate ( very low THD) when it comes to bass. It is precisely the reason why, many purposely drive their amplifiers into clip when less THD is involved. They are trying to achieve a certain type of tone.


Sound is subjective. At the end of the day, what sounds good to the user overrides everything. 30 Hz – 15 Hz is no big deal for any Professional Amplifier. However, how much THD is present from 30 Hz – 15 Hz, will have the user sway to what he/she feels sounds best.






Best Regards,  




Edited by Elliot Thompson - 14 September 2023 at 4:30am
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zilinux View Drop Down
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Things are getting clearer Thumbs Up
Seems that this question is similar into "transistor vs tube" one - measurements showing that tube amps has much more distortion versus transistor but despite that people loves them anyway and....i one of them :)

Do class D amplifier always emits less heat into environment compared to the class A/B or H one?
What's about energy consumption between those classes for the same output?
If i'd choose a class D 1U size device, should i worry about noise of these small fans?
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2023 at 2:58am
Originally posted by zilinux zilinux wrote:

Things are getting clearer Thumbs Up
Seems that this question is similar into "transistor vs tube" one - measurements showing that tube amps has much more distortion versus transistor but despite that people loves them anyway and....i one of them :)

Do class D amplifier always emits less heat into environment compared to the class A/B or H one?

When all things are considered equal, yes! Class D Amplifiers offers less heat than Class A, A/B, B, G and, H amplifiers.

Originally posted by zilinux zilinux wrote:

What's about energy consumption between those classes for the same output?

Idle current is lower with Class D amplifiers. However, power consumption (taking idle current out of the equation) offers no advantage over older amplifiers. The above is based on watts vs current at the given resistive load.


Originally posted by zilinux zilinux wrote:

If i'd choose a class D 1U size device, should i worry about noise of these small fans?


Too much fan noise for Home Audio or shall I say, Audiophile standards.

Best Regards,


Edited by Elliot Thompson - 15 September 2023 at 2:59am
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sebna View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BrainlessTekno BrainlessTekno wrote:

im prety sure the website is lying. i wouldnt even be impressed if that was true, i would just try to wake up from the wierdest dream. I have a stack of 4 huge 18' horns at home that are made to do bass at huge events and even they cant reach 30hz. So i highly doubt that 15 inchers with the shittiest enclousure can reach 30hz... not speaking about 10 or 15 as they claim to do. Just guessing but i would say thay can do 55hz possibly 50hz. 

There are plenty off the shelf HT oriented subs happily going into teens and some into single digits.

When you go DIY sky is the limit and single digit extension is not a problem.

Your horns were designed for different frequencies reproduction so they excel in different range, that is all.


Edited by sebna - 05 November 2023 at 3:48pm
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OP. What amps have you ended up buying in the end?

I was in similar situation and chosen Crown XLI 3500 x2 for my 4x 18" BMS drivers.

I also considered Pro line but got discouraged by their crap protection circus frying drivers as I will not have any limiters in my system.
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KDW32 View Drop Down
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I'd go for a something based on a medical amplifier to be honest like a Chevin A class for example.i used to have  one of those and does from what I recall 10hz to 30khz Recently used a LA48a on OHM infra and that amp seems to go a lot lower than the spec sheets say. Not impressed with those xLS and xli amps to be honest. Cheap. 
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sebna View Drop Down
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Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

I'd go for a something based on a medical amplifier to be honest like a Chevin A class for example.i used to have  one of those and does from what I recall 10hz to 30khz Recently used a LA48a on OHM infra and that amp seems to go a lot lower than the spec sheets say. Not impressed with those xLS and xli amps to be honest. Cheap. 

Not impressed because those are cheap? ;)

On more serious note, have you had either in your system? What were you not impressed with exactly?

Where those shine is quiet operation and I need that as they will be for foreseeable future in the same room as the listening position.

Once and if I can move the rack to projection booth I plan to swap them for LP clones do something like FP 22k etc.


Edited by sebna - 05 November 2023 at 5:28pm
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zilinux View Drop Down
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Hey, i did have a good deal and decided to buy a PKN XE5002 amp but Elliot Thompson was right - at least this particular model (have read that some of other manufacturers 1U units are even louder than this one) operating too loud for audiophile listening scenario. Now i'm thinking about to replace those noisy fans with silent Noctua ones but...Noctua fans are just 1/3 of the performance compared to original ones... but do hope they will be suficient to cool down the amp because i do listen on really low levels of volume.
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Points: 11 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zilinux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2023 at 6:43pm
Hey, i did have a good deal and decided to buy a PKN XE5002 amp but Elliot Thompson was right - at least this particular model (have read that some of other manufacturers 1U units are even louder than this one) operating too loud for audiophile listening scenario. Now i'm thinking about to replace those noisy fans with silent Noctua ones but...Noctua fans are just 1/3 of the performance compared to original ones... but do hope they will be suficient to cool down the amp because i do listen on really low levels of volume.

P.S. Sorry for double post
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sebna View Drop Down
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Originally posted by zilinux zilinux wrote:

Hey, i did have a good deal and decided to buy a PKN XE5002 amp but Elliot Thompson was right - at least this particular model (have read that some of other manufacturers 1U units are even louder than this one) operating too loud for audiophile listening scenario. Now i'm thinking about to replace those noisy fans with silent Noctua ones but...Noctua fans are just 1/3 of the performance compared to original ones... but do hope they will be suficient to cool down the amp because i do listen on really low levels of volume.

P.S. Sorry for double post


And other than fan noise how do you like them?

I did not want to go with class-D as it runs out of juice quite quickly and rarely is capable to sustain long bass notes. Mostly because of SMPS AFAIK and it ultra quick saturation times and drop to 50% of rated power.

That is the reason I wanted to go with LPSU with class AB preferably.
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KDW32 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by sebna sebna wrote:

Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

I'd go for a something based on a medical amplifier to be honest like a Chevin A class for example.i used to have  one of those and does from what I recall 10hz to 30khz Recently used a LA48a on OHM infra and that amp seems to go a lot lower than the spec sheets say. Not impressed with those xLS and xli amps to be honest. Cheap. 

Not impressed because those are cheap? ;)

Yes  cheap and nasty. Poor build quality and I don't think they sound great. They can't hold a sustained bass note. 

Quote
On more serious note, have you had either in your system? What were you not impressed with exactly?

Yes my friend had some. I've used his. As said poorly built don't sound great. He's got rid of his thankfully he upgraded to FFA. 

Quote
Where those shine is quiet operation and I need that as they will be for foreseeable future in the same room as the listening position.

Once and if I can move the rack to projection booth I plan to swap them for LP clones do something like FP 22k etc.

OK I'm using for outdoor festival/large clubs/ live sound  etc. I want reliability, something that can go for days solid  without a problem. Reliability and sound quality is more important for me as I'm not in a private auditorium. My power is normally coming from generators and those crowns suck on those. In environment I use fan noise is 100% not an issue. 

Sorry didn't realise you were using for home theatre when I replied. This forum is normally is not for home AV stuff so thought you were using your amps for different application. If your getting good results for yourself this is great as everyone hears things different. Thumbs Up
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sebna View Drop Down
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Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

Originally posted by sebna sebna wrote:

Originally posted by KDW32 KDW32 wrote:

I'd go for a something based on a medical amplifier to be honest like a Chevin A class for example.i used to have  one of those and does from what I recall 10hz to 30khz Recently used a LA48a on OHM infra and that amp seems to go a lot lower than the spec sheets say. Not impressed with those xLS and xli amps to be honest. Cheap. 

Not impressed because those are cheap? ;)

Yes  cheap and nasty. Poor build quality and I don't think they sound great. They can't hold a sustained bass note. 

Quote
On more serious note, have you had either in your system? What were you not impressed with exactly?

Yes my friend had some. I've used his. As said poorly built don't sound great. He's got rid of his thankfully he upgraded to FFA. 

Quote
Where those shine is quiet operation and I need that as they will be for foreseeable future in the same room as the listening position.

Once and if I can move the rack to projection booth I plan to swap them for LP clones do something like FP 22k etc.

OK I'm using for outdoor festival/large clubs/ live sound  etc. I want reliability, something that can go for days solid  without a problem. Reliability and sound quality is more important for me as I'm not in a private auditorium. My power is normally coming from generators and those crowns suck on those. In environment I use fan noise is 100% not an issue. 

Sorry didn't realise you were using for home theatre when I replied. This forum is normally is not for home AV stuff so thought you were using your amps for different application. If your getting good results for yourself this is great as everyone hears things different. Thumbs Up


No worries. Different priorities.

Quality I have covered with my stereo system :)

For subs I just need brute force and reasonable sound quality for the money.
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