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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:26am
Originally posted by ruelectrical ruelectrical wrote:

I firmly believe if you buy a rig with a Division A  badge, designed by enginneers with years and pedigree of experience, if you set it up as manufacturers want it to be heard you aint going to go far wrong with any of the current line array systems, sound bloody great.
Start to change things for the sake of it , your ears get confused and you forget how it should sound,
Classic case at Pro this year, the smallest rig in the big room , Martin Audio ( yes I am potentially bias as I own a bit), sounded the sweetest, no eq  just a nice clean audio source and system doing as designed 


Those boxes have DSP and EQ built into them...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:43am
LOL

I was just wondering about compression drivers & distortion, 2" drivers in particular, how much more hearing damage do you get from this distrtion? I trust my feelings and it hurts, so it must be some.

In my own system my 1" drivers doesn't reach full power until above 5 khz, it's the bms 4540nd with polyester diaphragm, they sound awesome. I always thought it was aluminium or something, but the secret appears to be polyester and of course tiny diaphragm & high sensivity.

I just found this comment about the subject elsewhere on this forum:

Sadly the vast majority of speakers on the market are sonic weapons, the manufacturers know they cause hearing damage but most don't care and it shows in their R&D. Anything that's using a compression driver below 5kHz will do it and sadly that means 9 out of 10 of the 2 way systems in existence as soon as you push them up to an SPL which you need for a disco/live type event they sound absolutely god awful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 8:58am
Every system needs tuning to the space it's in. Manufacturer presets are only a stating point to achieve a flat response in an open space. May well sound ok in a big open field, but put the same rig with same settings in a concrete box.... It'll sound totally different. Almost every box ever designed has some sort of eq applied to it..
Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 9:44am
Of course, and then again no:-) F1 aim to sound perfect (outside) with no eq.
My system was far better from "factory" than the martin tops which should supposedly be factory set.

To avoid the use of a lot eq inside the dispersion and damping have to be thought thru, this is number 1 way to avoid eq.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:21am
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

I need to do some tuning of w9lm boxes in a club, they sound awful with highs making the audience deaf, just wanted to hear if anyone has any suggestions / tricks for this particular box?
Obviously i need to turn down the highs & do some eqing for room resonances.

They have only 2 per side, but its ok I think as they have a low concrete ceiling and a concrete floor!
Sounds awful until audience arrives. below this they have 6 wsx boxes per side!

12 subs to 4 small tops? sounds just about right for balance...
But all joking aside i don't know the room so if it works.

imo definitely need at least 4 tops per side to start working as spec, the more the better. They seemed to sound quite disconnected with only a few boxes with harsh highs as described.
One thing i noticed on the w8lm was the lack of, using the term lightly, 'throw'.

Question is; Does the club actually need a line array with WSX? or was it put in just because?
Again not knowing the room, but I would have thought a concrete building with low ceiling would benefit from point source boxes and a different choice of sub.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:48am
suggestions are welcome:-)
I think the older point source 12/6.5/1 floodlight iike tops from martin would do better.
But they probably need a quite high crossover, which again might lead to a more boomy sound from the subs.
@WSX: do you think they have too much directivity or throw for the room? Would ported be better?
I wouldn't mind putting other brand tops on top, I like mixed marriages, could be F1, xtro or something point source with a crossover no higher than 120hz


Edited by tv00 - 28 October 2014 at 11:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by wires wires wrote:

Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

I need to do some tuning of w9lm boxes in a club, they sound awful with highs making the audience deaf, just wanted to hear if anyone has any suggestions / tricks for this particular box?
Obviously i need to turn down the highs & do some eqing for room resonances.

They have only 2 per side, but its ok I think as they have a low concrete ceiling and a concrete floor!
Sounds awful until audience arrives. below this they have 6 wsx boxes per side!




12 subs to 4 small tops? sounds just about right for balance...
But all joking aside i don't know the room so if it works.

imo definitely need at least 4 tops per side to start working as spec, the more the better. They seemed to sound quite disconnected with only a few boxes with harsh highs as described.
One thing i noticed on the w8lm was the lack of, using the term lightly, 'throw'.

Question is; Does the club actually need a line array with WSX? or was it put in just because?
Again not knowing the room, but I would have thought a concrete building with low ceiling would benefit from point source boxes and a different choice of sub.


It 'throws' less because it's a wide dispersion box. With just two boxes a side you won't get coupling to compensate on the mid or low end, hence why the top end is still going strong and it sounds harsh.

Edited by toastyghost - 28 October 2014 at 12:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 12:47pm
oh don't get me wrong Toast, i mentioned exactly what you have just said when it was set up last time i heard some. It just struck me that it did drop off quite quickly compared to other similar cabs... not necessarily a bad thing as it helps keep the sound where you want it.

I know the dispersion is one of the main attractions for this kind of box and it does it well, but in small rooms this can cause more problems. Especially on hard walls.

@tv00; i don't know the layout so can't advise fully but sometimes less is definitely more.
WSX are good cabs, but it does depend on the venue. All the energy can end up in the car park and not the dance floor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 1:19pm
Still doesnt explain the 200hz honk that was there with three a side, can only imagine that gets worse as you add boxes! Just not a very flat response unfortunately.

Edited by Jimmer - 28 October 2014 at 1:21pm
Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 2:03pm
Very true King. I can't remember the factory settings for these used but it did sound a bit off... still at least you got a result and some compliments out of it all :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 4:42pm
Yes the lighting did seem to go down well  LOL
Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2014 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

ok, so basically you say he'd need 1 more per side or a W8DVQ to get a proper response, I'll check the dsp setiings, it should be manufacturer settings, but no doubt they sound harsh when pushed.
My system sounded nice in there last weekend just as it came with my personal "factory settings", but I improved it, I always do as much as I can with the crossover, often I do eq and move the results to the xover if possible.



I think what the poster meant was to look at the settings for W8DVQ and use them on your two a side of W8LM.   the DVQ is basically two LM a side, so if you use the settings for DVQ to set up your boxes it'll sound very close to martin's own settings for that size of array and i'm sure an awful lot better than the actual settings for W8LM when you only have two a side.

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