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Mini Sound System - 12'' scoop vs.?

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jan.i.am View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan.i.am Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mini Sound System - 12'' scoop vs.?
    Posted: 10 December 2020 at 5:53pm
Dear forum,

I'm planning to build a mini sound system, starting from 2 scoops.
I came across the 12''scoop plan from Eminence (as shown below) and I'm wondering how it sounds.

Does anyone of you have a frequency response of that plan? I couldn't find it anywhere..
What design do you suggest as an alternative? I was thinking about the ES-15BLH (Staiper 15'' micro scoop)

I mainly want to play reggae/dub on it and I want to build something small for manageability purposes.
My goal is to reach as much sub bass as possible with those small dimensions.

Could you also recommend me a suitable driver?

Thank you very much for your wisdom!!



12''scoop plan from Eminence
http://scoopbin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Eminence-12inch-Scoop.jpg


Edited by jan.i.am - 10 December 2020 at 5:55pm
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Speaker Sol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2020 at 8:33pm
Personally I would recommend going with a tapped horn design. 

THAM12 or Cubo 12 spring to mind. 

I built Cubo 12 and they where great little bins. THAM is supposed to be better...

Anyway, small rigs are great fun, hope you go through with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 December 2020 at 8:34pm
PS if you really want to hit sub 50hz, you may want to go reflex...

And sorry I didn't answer your questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fat_brstd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2020 at 11:07am
12" scoops only work well when they are massive, the horn needs to be long in order to hit low notes so when you make them small they stop dropping low. Not really the best when it comes to being portable.

Reflex 15" can do a lot of damage and hit easily low enough for reggae/dub. Really it is all about how loud do you want to go vs how small you want, as always Hoffman's iron law applies.

I think if you did want to go for a small driver in a scoop then rather than that old eminence plan which never worked very well the handful of times I've heard it, you would be better off using a more modern plan. Keep the horn shape, shrink it width ways so it really narrow, and adjust chamber size until you get something more suitable to a small driver. You could also get away by reducing the height by 6" compared to an 18" scoop plan, just cut 6" off the top and move the internals down that far.
Adrians Wall Sound System
Melbournes Rootical Warrior
Roots - Dub - Steppers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2020 at 11:19am
With 312L outside volume you definitely have better options then the ones you posted earlier.
THAM 18 is even smaller, but doubt it would go low enough for your needs.

Personally I also would go the tapped horn/ paraflex route. 300-350 L gives you enough options.
Being not always that popular, Cubo Sub will do 35 Hz -3dB using a nice 18".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SubMeditation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 December 2020 at 9:07pm
How you want to transport your sound? For mobile use?

Keep in mind that one big 18" will be more efficient than two 12".
 
But if you want to keep things small and want to hit 30hz on the same level as the ones above, something like volvotreters 10" could be a good option as well (http://wp.volvotreter.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/AWM104_TH_Rev_0.pdf and http://wp.volvotreter.de/projects/th-2/the-mivoc-30hz-tapped-horn/
A friend of mine got this one, i've build a tapped horn for 30hz with that cheap driver as well and it worked great for small sessions with 20 people or so while still being able to transport it on a bicycle trailer for children. And the 12v batteries for the session on the carrier. 
For mobile use it's a nice driver since it got 4 ohm resistance and most cheap class d amps can output more watts on 4 ohm. 

I read somewhere that the eminence 12" plan doesn't go that low, surely not lower than 40hz, so great for roots, but not deep enough for the lowest notes on steppa tunes. I've heard reggae music for 2 years over a mobile system that goes to 38hz, and still its great, but if you stick with it, you want to hit 33hz sooner or later to enjoy steppa to the fullest.
Still, i know a local sound guy who does his small mobile sessions with one hd15 as it's the most eficent cab in that size, between 80 and 150 hz tough. But still, if the tunes are spinning and the session is blaz'in, it's great fun. 
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jan.i.am View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan.i.am Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 9:15am
Thank you so much for all your replies!! It's really helpful ro read all this things.

Reflex or tapped horn would be efficient, but I really would like to stick to the horn shape and build a scoop. I think I might try to design a scoop myself and then simulate it. Like fat_brstd suggested, I will try to shrink the size of a 18''scoop down to a smaller one. I'm still in doubt what size I should choose. Whether if I should build a mobile 12'' one or a 15'' one to hit the lower frequencies. As always I have to settle for a compromise in terms of compact size and deep bass.

So if you have any suggestions or opinions, I would like to hear them.
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APW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 10:07am
Here is the plot for the 12" emi scoop you asked for, dosen't go low at all:



Edited by APW - 28 December 2020 at 10:12am
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jan.i.am View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan.i.am Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 10:09am
Wow thanks!! Do you know which driver was used?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 10:11am
Originally posted by APW APW wrote:

Here is the plot for the 12" emi scoop you asked for:


Wow that is  bad Ouch  waste of wood LOL
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jan.i.am View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan.i.am Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 10:14am
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:


Wow that is  bad Ouch  waste of wood LOL

yeah, doesn't look that great.. but who knows which driver was used for this
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APW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2020 at 10:21am

The driver is as stated on the plot (Old EM12-150), the plots for all the old emi scoops are with the plans in the old Eminence book that’s from the late 80s/early 90s and is almost identical to the plan in the Fane book from the late 70s/early 80s…. it’s a very old design!!

…. Plus it doesn’t matter what driver you put in this design the horn length it way too short.



Edited by APW - 28 December 2020 at 10:25am
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