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the italian problem...

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_Natty_ View Drop Down
Young Croc
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    Posted: 29 September 2010 at 2:47pm
I don't know if it's the same in uk, but here many many venue have some serius prob on power supply, maybe just 1 32A plug -when u are lucky- maybe just 16A plugs...

-i've just broke an ab class amp this friday for driving it with too less power-

so the problem how we can drive a big system with old amps like crest 9001 or crown MA5000 or similar...
the only solution is going on expensive D class amp?

any opinion is wellcome!

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Peter Papp [PKN] View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Papp [PKN] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2010 at 3:00pm

Using more efficient amp means more output power from the same line. Probably good old linear amps are the less power efficient from any known technology. 

Most of the conventional low frequency and switching power supply powered amps(!) have very poor power factor and high line current distortion. If you have a modern and with good power factor (like amps with built-in APFC) you can pull out much higher power from the same socket safely.

Some modern amps have pretty high stored energy inside which helps to deliver music peaks  and "smoothen"   the line current draw.

Just for an example with the same 16A/230V (3600W) available power with 50% signal density (pretty high):


1. Linear amp Efficiency=60% PF=0,5 Real Input power:1800W Heat produced: 720W Output average: 1080W Output peak: 2x 1080W

2. Switching amp with PFC:  Efficiency=90% PF=0,95 Real Input power: 3420W Heat produced: 342W Output average: 3078W Output peak: 2x 3078W

So it is a pretty big difference. In the most number of cases the peak-to-average ratio with music signals rarely closes to 50% anyways.



Edited by Peter Papp [PKN] - 29 September 2010 at 3:18pm
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2010 at 3:40pm
+1 on natty question
would soon go from 1 stack(4scoops) to 2 stacks(6 scoops) and would love to have the best amps with the limited power we usually find at venues
what are the most efficient amps out there? infinite 8?
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bitzo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2010 at 4:01pm
define "best" please. You know a class H, double toroidal sound lush but...eat a lot of current. A part class D, someone have experience with others switching amp?
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 11:34am
so it's just an italian problem....
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Speaker Sol View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 12:09pm
Try Ireland.

Most of the time, we only get a pair of 13amp sockets running from the same ring main. Line voltage drops to around 218 and I have seen it as low as 210. 

I'm usly running PKN6000/4000/2500 and crown Macro Tech 9000i, All class D.

The PKNs have no problem running at these low line voltages, the Crown however is very sensitive to line voltage drop.  
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bitzo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 1:26pm
that's interesting, what kind of power supply have the pkn?
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Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subbass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 1:35pm
at least you havent got a 250v+ .. got that in my house, causes no end of problems Ermm
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audiomik View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audiomik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 2:00pm
Re: "at least you havent got a 250v+"

heard somewhere that parts of Brizzle still has DC Supplies..... now I know it may be true!
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 5:07pm
Both the Crown and the PKN have switching supply's.

The PKN supply seems very well built, it manages to maintain a very high output regardless of the line voltage. As Line level drops the power supply does start to eat into it's thermal head room, However I regular a hot and sweaty club where I use the PKN XE6000, the line level sits around 218V, I power a pair of Void Stasys X Neo bass speakers, The DJs play Dub Step. Even under these conditions the amp is able to run the subs at optimal level without overheating it's self. 

The Crown on the over hand seems to run into clipping as soon as voltage drops. I think this is a software thing rather than a power supply thing, I think the amp is clamping down on the current when it sees the voltage dropping, which leads to premature clipping. This is probably a great feature in certain circumstance, however it leads to a lot of problems when your gigging old venues.

I am happy, but it is worth noting at this point that I do have a vested interest in PKN.


 
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bitzo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 5:30pm
so interesting and useful...so what about qsc pl series and lab gruppen?


Edited by bitzo - 01 October 2010 at 5:31pm
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abbotsmike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abbotsmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2010 at 5:31pm
If you read around you will find power supply problems are pretty universal, and many guys end up running off nothing more than a couple of ropey 13amp sockets.
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