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What Is The Best Scoop ?

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Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote login4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 2:24pm
oooo all hail the might Dubpass, LOL

lets have a look at her then....
CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by login4 login4 wrote:

lets have a look at her then....
 
Well, I have to design it first but, er,
 
MIGHTY DUB PASS will have the look of UNLIMITED DUB BASS POWER and probably the BIGGEST reflex port you've ever seen. But now I've said to much already. Await MIGHTY DUB PASS and all shall be revealed!!!1
 
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by jsg mashed jsg mashed wrote:

 
I will design you a scoop-killing bandpass subwoofer. I will design this cabinet and supply the designs unto you here, in this forum. I will name my creation the MIGHTY DUB PASS.
 


Excellent.

If  4x of these single driver cabs in a stackwhen driven with 1k each, sound deeper, have flatter response and higher SPL @ 25, 50 and 100 metres than

a)4x 1850 loaded RX18's,
b)4x V18-1000 loaded Supers or
c)4x Turbomax loaded Shortman scoops

When driven with 1k per cab, Inside and outside, I will have no problem accepting it is indeed a scoop killer.

When will it be ready ? (Date Now 14:57, 22 october, 2007)

Regards.



Edited by levyte357 - 22 October 2007 at 3:02pm
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

If  4x of these single driver cabs in a stackwhen driven with 1k each, sound deeper, have flatter response and higher SPL @ 25, 50 and 100 metres than

a)4x 1850 loaded RX18's,
b)4x V18-1000 loaded Supers or
c)4x Turbomax loaded Shortman scoops

When driven with 1k per cab, Inside and outside, I will have no problem accepting it is indeed a scoop killer.
 
What you say here will indeed come to pass, and more, when the MIGHTY DUB PASS is tested.
 
Can't give you a date though - it's ready when it's ready. After all, MIGHTY DUB PASS must cactch up with and surpass 40 years of designing, building and operating SCOOPs...
 
...then bring that 40 year period to an end!!!!!!!!
 
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by jsg mashed jsg mashed wrote:

What you say here will indeed come to pass, and more, when the MIGHTY DUB PASS is tested.
 
Can't give you a date though - it's ready when it's ready. After all, MIGHTY DUB PASS must cactch up with and surpass 40 years of designing, building and operating SCOOPs...


Understand that mate, but we're gonna neeed some kind of date for the prototype, otherwise it would open the gates on the forum to people saying they're gonna design all sorts of stuff and nothing ever materialising.

So how about a prototype/proof of concept in 30 days?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

So how about a prototype/proof of concept in 30 days?
 
Your concern is unjustified. There are not enough designers on this forum for these "flood gates" of which you speak to pass more than a small trickle.
 
I shall provide the MIGHTY DUB PASS DESIGN when it is ready. I shall provide a design, not a prototype, though I am willing to assist anyone who wants to build some.
 
I shall not accept further attempts to add extra rules. You seem to try this with everyone. It is a bad habit, built upon prejudice and fear.
 


Edited by jsg mashed - 22 October 2007 at 4:13pm
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by jsg mashed jsg mashed wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

So how about a prototype/proof of concept in 30 days?
 
Your concern is unjustified. There are not enough designers on this forum for these "flood gates" of which you speak to pass more than a small trickle.
 
I shall provide the MIGHTY DUB PASS DESIGN when it is ready. I shall provide a design, not a prototype, though I am willing to assist anyone who wants to build some.
 
I shall not accept further attempts to add extra rules. You seem to try this with everyone. It is a bad habit, built upon prejudice and fear.
 


LOLLOLLOL

On the contrary, there are many here who put forward design ideas/suggestions. However , the more worthy contributors, usually have the good taste to allow others to comment on the merits of their design.







Edited by levyte357 - 22 October 2007 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heathrow_B_line Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 4:25pm
 
Could we have a dual 18" cab something like the B2 or infrabass???  Big%20smile


Edited by Heathrow_B_line - 22 October 2007 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

 
 
LOLLOLLOL

 
This laugh is not the last one!!!
 
I already have a bandpass that can compete with scoops in spite of being half the size. I have deployed it and can demonstrate it any time. Your mirth is injudicious and premature.
 
Comments will indeed be invted and encouraged. It is written that all great things shall be discussed in the forums and so it shall come to pass with MIGHTY DUB PASS.
 
Edit: there shall be no further posts on this thread. Only edits to existing posts.
 


Edited by jsg mashed - 22 October 2007 at 4:40pm
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Heathrow_B_line Heathrow_B_line wrote:

Originally posted by jsg mashed jsg mashed wrote:

I shall provide a design, not a prototype, though I am willing to assist anyone who wants to build some.
Could we have a dual 18" cab something like the B2 or infrabass??? 
I will consider a dual-driver MIGHTY DUB PASS after the single-driver one has first been created.
 


Edited by jsg mashed - 22 October 2007 at 4:38pm
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 5:19pm
This is all well and good jsg. What you're forgetting is that scoops are used in the reggae scene because of the quirks in their character; the distortion and the far from flat response. This is the sound people come to associate with dub and reggae.

Granted your as yet unseen bandpass design may surpass many scoops on paper, but will it sound right in context? More importantly, will it catch on?

Also , scoops are an anomaly. They seem to defy the maths usually applied to building horns and go against much that makes a good speaker (e.g. inherant phase cancellation) and yet, they will knock you over if you're not careful. There's a certain mystic 'something' that makes scoops more than the result of the maths you put in.

Besides, King Earthquake used to use Bps, and ditched them for custion 1850 horns Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2007 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Jhodas Jhodas wrote:

This is all well and good jsg. What you're forgetting is that scoops are used in the reggae scene because of the quirks in their character; the distortion and the far from flat response. This is the sound people come to associate with dub and reggae.

Granted your as yet unseen bandpass design may surpass many scoops on paper, but will it sound right in context? More importantly, will it catch on?

Also , scoops are an anomaly. They seem to defy the maths usually applied to building horns and go against much that makes a good speaker (e.g. inherant phase cancellation) and yet, they will knock you over if you're not careful. There's a certain mystic 'something' that makes scoops more than the result of the maths you put in.

Besides, King Earthquake used to use Bps, and ditched them for custion 1850 horns Tongue
 
Your observations are interesting.
 
Distortion is always associated with a loss in sensitivity. It is always more efficient to run a distorion effect and allow the midrange loudspeaker to reproduce the harmonics. A SCOOP will lose low frequency capability when the cone excursion rises to distortion levels but will reproduce the distortion harmonics inefficiently and with beaming. MIGHTY DUB PASS will not distort because it will control cone excursion correctly.
 
MIGHTY DUB PASS will catch on with copious amounts of WIN. Music producers have been moving to better quality monitoring systems and sound systems have reconfigured the way they use scoops so as to hide that characteristic sound because it is now just holding back the music. Now that DUB STEP is emerging the paradims are shifting.
 
There is nothing mystic about scoops. The response function implied by the topology includes a "zero" in the Lapace domain. This corresponds to a partial dip in frequency response. The consequence of this is similar to steeper rolloff sloes in that it allows greater efficiency with all other things equal.
 
The problem is that the zero will always shag the phase response wheras steep ultimate rolloffs do not need to do this. Scoops are a non-minimum-phase topology that will always lose against more mathematically sound designs.
 
These days, system operators omit this dip from the response by crossing over to kick bins at a relatively low frequency. But this wastes the sensitivity provided by both driver and horn at higher frequencies - the "magic" gets thrown out with the bathwater.
 
MIGHTY DUB PASS will be used with kick bins, just like the scoops it will replace. That's the objsctive, as I stated in my original comment (so I'm not changing the rules). Its band of operation will be optimised for that application.
 
As a side note, this is a perfect example of why belief in magic is harmful: as long as you think something is magical, you'll never believe that a mere mortal can capture its essence and maybe improve on it. MIGHTY DUB PASS does not require magic, only applied science and engineering.
 
...because Good is Dumb.
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