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Xtro build-Finished-For Sale£1200
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Joined: 23 March 2010
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Points: 2166 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2009 at 7:21am
Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

So, matt, rog, cehard, tallmike, csg, etc etc, (whoever was there), 

What was it you thought was wrong with matts xtros?  tell me more. it might be something simple... 
 

I can only speak for myself and from my perspective, but it just didn’t sound right. There was no definition, no detail, no HF above 10KHz, a slow soggy lower mid and no life. It just sounded like you were listening from behind the speaker and that the front was playing into a large sofa. And this was when you were directly on axis to it. Quite a few respected engineers that all knew how to use an XTA processor spent a while trying to get it to sound good. In the end we all just looked at each other and turned it off and played with some other stuff as it was becoming apparent that it just wasn’t going to happen for the Xtro.

 

Walt, how dependent is the Xtro on having the correct settings. I’ve heard many cabs that are very dependant on the correct EQ, slopes, delays and crossover frequencies to work well, but even if you set them up with the basic crossover freq’s, set all the slopes to 24dB LR and use no EQ or delays, don’t sound as bad as the Xtro I heard.

 

Matt, did your Xtro have any mods and did it use all the recommended drivers.

 

Something tells me that when I hear a sound that bad, that it isn’t going to be simple Saul.
 
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Points: 6085 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2009 at 11:19am

ive only just seen this latter part of the thread, and unfortunately had to leave the amp meet as the xtro was being rigged, so cant comment directly on how it sounded.

i do know the xt8 / 8pe21 combination well, having built my own take on the xtro a few months ago:

in this variant, the xt8 mid horn was crossed in at 250Hz, and out at 3.5KHz. and was at -6dB relative gain  the the 15" bandpass horn bass section and +0.5dB relative gain to the 1" section.
 
The mid horn had no trouble keeping up with the rest of the cabinet, and the only, minor, modification i made was to shim and seal the joint between the front of the driver and the rear of the phase plug to allow slightly more cone movent as i found there to be a little fouling of the cone, causing some distortion at high levels - but remember i was crossing the unit in lower than on the xtro  design.
 
For my money, the single 15" bass section produced a cleaner, less woody sound than the twin 15 section in the xtro - but i think we need to remember that the xtro and infact the punnisher are quite specialised boxes which sound excellent with some forms of music, but not so good with others.
 
Tallmike has also used my take on the xtro in anger in a live situation and, whilst i would be the first to say their performance was not in the league of some profesional boxes, the results were far from dissapointing, so im not sure what was going on with the xtro at the amp meet
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my experience with xtros has been good so far. 

Mine are all the specified drivers + XT8 horns, except i use a Beyma CP380M for the 1" instead. 

First time i fired them up, they sounded sh*te - no delay. 

Then we added delay just by way of a tape measure (not taking exact measurements from drawings or taking group delay etc in account.) 

the difference was incredible. jake fielder can vouch for this. 

15" brutal and clean as you like - hurt within a few meters from 2 cabs. 
8" - no problems there  - kept up very well, and very clear, despite my drivers being a bit tired now. 
1" - gorgeous, what more can i say about the CP380M. 

Even without detailed EQ, only volumes by ear,  they sounded accurate and flat which is what im after. 

I'd like to put an RTA with smaart on them to see exactly what theyre up to - could lead to further improvement. 

Afaik matts have b&c 15" instead of 18sound, otherwise all specified drivers were used. 

I suspect it could be a delay problem OR even more likely is a polarity change in the wiring where the 8 core enters the cab and then gets split up. - i know theres a bit of complicated parralell link and bass link and it gets a bit busy behind there. 
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Hi Rog & Saul,
Saul is right, standard drivers apart from 15", I had B&C that came with another set of unloaded xtros.
The only mod is the use of Mykeys XT8 horn.

Saul, thankyou for your offer to go through settings. I will take you up on that during this week.

The wiring was a little busy. I doubt that there is anything wrong with the design or drivers, if a little further tweaking with Saul does not get it sounding right then I shall go through it with a multimeter and check everything.

Cheers
Matt
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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Points: 1632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinfinity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2010 at 8:45pm
edit. Hit post by mistake.

Edited by Sinfinity - 11 January 2010 at 8:46pm
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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Points: 1632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinfinity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 1:10am
I enjoyed building these. However I fancy building something else this year so it's time for the xtro's to find a new home. Details in the "For Sale" section.

Cheers
Matt
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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Points: 6085 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2010 at 10:43pm
So, whats next Matt? The last of my mid highs found new homes today, so im getting a little itchy with my festool if you know what i mean...
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super modular system! 
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Points: 1632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinfinity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2010 at 8:16am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

So, whats next Matt? The last of my mid highs found new homes today, so im getting a little itchy with my festool if you know what i mean...


I have a festool sitting here anxiously waiting to get its teech into some 18mm goodness. I am hoping to get a chance to listen to a lot of stuff over the coming month or two and use that as research / inspiration.

I am selling the xtro's now so that I have the funding available ready for new drivers.

Im glad to see you are getting ready to create something new. Will give you a call later on to discuss ideas.

Your mid highs and double punishers gave me a few thoughts last time, but I had already started cutting the 1850's.

Cheers
Matt
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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Points: 1632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinfinity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2010 at 9:05pm
Hi all.
I made the mistake of spending too much time at work, and not enough on sound stuff to have them set up before arrival at the amp meet.

Have since had a little time to play with them, and I am happy. It goes without saying that the cabs would be demoed, using the same settings as Saul etc. You will not be dissapointed. The settings used on a 2496 will be supplied with the cabs.

My saw finger is getting itchy and wants to start building again. I simply need these cabs to find a new home so that I may have the pleasure of building something else.

Cheers
Matt
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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i have found two different setups work well. 

Either use the specified settings Walt has given on the punisher page. Use his crossover settings and Eq and they play pretty well 

BUT REMEMBER - if your using these setting, the delays must be adjusted for your subs (if theyre not punishers). All the horn lengths can be derived from his settings.

The other way is with crossovers directly on each other i.e. 15" from 90 to 350, and 8" from 350 to 2.5k etc etc, using a 48db LR slope. Eq to taste and work out the delays. 



Edited by Saul - 31 January 2010 at 9:18pm
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Points: 1632 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sinfinity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2010 at 10:13pm
Its building time of year :). Time for these to find a new home.Big smile
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk
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